Go Back   Disc Golf Course Review > General Disc Golf Discussions > Rules Questions & Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:23 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Courses Played: 1
Posts: 118
Niced 53 Times in 28 Posts
Default SPOILER(?) - foot fault & hazard penalty, Santa Cruz Masters Cup

So just looking for clarity really....

Ricky's tee-shot on hole 15 Final Round incurred two penalty strokes. One for the stance violation (foot-fault) AND one for the disc landing in the bunker hazard.

But the rules also talk about a single throw or action not getting penalized twice:

Quote:
801.02 Enforcement H. A throw or an action that is subject to penalty under more than one rule is played
under the rule that results in the most penalty throws; or, among rules that call
for an equal number of penalty throws, the rule that was first violated.
Quote:
QA-APP-1
Is there a priority order for which
violation should count if more than
one rule applies?
Yes. The violation with the most severe
penalty is applied. Ties are broken by
what happened first. A single throw
cannot be penalized for more than one
violation.
On reading through the rules it seems unclear as to when penalties stack up, and when they don't. Something like incorrectly recording your score on a hole is obviously a separate action from whether you went OB on a particular throw on that hole.

But in this scenario could it be argued that the stance violation and landing in the hazard area are all part of 'a throw', and therefore only one stroke should be added. I don't actually think the call was wrong, it feels right to penalize both the stance violation and the hazard area landing. But I want to check that I haven't missed something in the rules that makes this explicit. Am I right that the rules are lacking in clarity on this?
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:27 AM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: VT
Courses Played: 1
Posts: 200
Niced 81 Times in 44 Posts
Default

I was wondering the same thing...

https://www.pdga.com/faq/out-bounds#t5601n237906

Quote:
QA-OB-6: A player in my group foot-faulted and was called on it (and seconded). His throw went OB. Does he get a warning, a penalty, or two penalties?
A player’s first stance violation results in a penalty throw. In this case, there were multiple violations. Normally, the first violation to occur is the one that counts. In this case, that’s the foot fault (though it doesn’t really matter as it’s one penalty throw either way). There’s no re-throw, so the disc is played as OB. Since a player cannot receive penalty throws for multiple violations on a single throw, there’s just one penalty throw.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:39 AM
Halcón's Avatar
Halcón Halcón is online now
Free at Last
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Years Playing: 7.6
Courses Played: 1
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 11,690
Niced 830 Times in 443 Posts
Default

Another day, another Wysocki foot fault.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:44 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Courses Played: 1
Posts: 118
Niced 53 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
I was wondering the same thing...

https://www.pdga.com/faq/out-bounds#t5601n237906
Gosh. That seems to pretty clearly show that the call was wrong. Unless there were special tournament rules in place.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:57 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Courses Played: 1
Posts: 118
Niced 53 Times in 28 Posts
Default

From the PDGA website News section.

https://www.pdga.com/news/wysocki-wi...r-coaster-ride

Quote:
As it turns out, this ruling was applied incorrectly. Per the PDGA Official Rules of Disc Golf Question and Answer section OB6, a player cannot receive more than one penalty stroke on a single throw. Wysocki should have only been assessed one penalty for either the foot fault or the hazard, which would have resulted in an incorrect scorecard at the end of play. Since this error was not caught until the event was completed, though, rule 808.G.1 applies and no more penalty strokes may be assessed. Wysocki won by two strokes, and even if he were to have the penalty for a scoring error added he still would have been victorious by a single stroke.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:10 AM
DG_player DG_player is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 499
Niced 128 Times in 87 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
From the PDGA website News section.

https://www.pdga.com/news/wysocki-wi...r-coaster-ride
I'm amazed top pros don't know the rules better. Although I think in this case it's somewhat understandable since the rule seems a little illogical and counter-intuitive.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:27 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
Flippy Flopper
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Years Playing: 25.6
Courses Played: 128
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,799
Niced 625 Times in 295 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DG_player View Post
I'm amazed top pros don't know the rules better. Although I think in this case it's somewhat understandable since the rule seems a little illogical and counter-intuitive.
It's ok not to know the ruling in an usual and admittedly confusing situation, like this one. It's another to be so completely clueless about the rules to even recognize that something doesn't quite seem right and to ask the TD at the end of the round the proper score.

Top pros lack of knowledge of rules is comical. Imagine going to your boss and saying that you don't know the regulations of your job and see their reaction.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:28 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
Flippy Flopper
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Years Playing: 25.6
Courses Played: 128
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,799
Niced 625 Times in 295 Posts
Default

Also in the article:

“I never witnessed it – I’ve gotta pay attention more,” (Anthon) admitted.

You just admitted to a courtesy violation.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:31 AM
joecoin's Avatar
joecoin joecoin is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: North Central Ohio
Years Playing: 5.5
Courses Played: 67
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,109
Niced 515 Times in 257 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
Also in the article:

“I never witnessed it – I’ve gotta pay attention more,” (Anthon) admitted.

You just admitted to a courtesy violation.
Should we tell his probation officer?

Reply With Quote
 

  #10  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:49 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Courses Played: 1
Posts: 118
Niced 53 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
it feels right to penalize both the stance violation and the hazard area landing.
So I think I'll stand by my earlier statement that foot faults should be treated separately from regulated area/route/position faults - both penalties should count.

It makes sense to me that regulated area/route/position faults are lumped in together as one 'class' of fault, and that you should only incur one penalty per throw for transgressing any of them. You make one 'error' by shanking your shot - you incur one penalty, even if you miss the mando AND go OB AND can't find you disc. It is still just as a result of one error - shanking your shot.

But a foot-fault/stance violation strikes me as a separate kind of thing. In the Wysocki incident, him stepping over the tee-pad front line didn't really play any significant part in the shot landing in the hazard. I'd say a player doing this has made two 'errors', one, not placing their feet correctly & two, throwing the shot poorly.

(A possible exception to this is slipping on the tee-pad/run-up. That could cause you to foot fault and misthrow.)

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2018 Master Cup Santa Cruz, CA brutalbrutus Tournaments & Leagues 280 05-29-2018 06:29 PM
Failure to enforce penalty (*SPOILER ALERT WORLDS*) DG_player Rules Questions & Discussion 32 09-20-2017 07:38 PM
Santa Cruz Masters Cup discs 1984-2004 ATrainWecker The Marketplace 1 08-29-2012 12:25 AM
2012 masters cup in santa cruz freakinwizzz Tournaments & Leagues 21 05-02-2012 08:23 PM
2009 Am masters in Santa Cruz CA BENFTS Tournaments & Leagues 5 02-18-2009 09:02 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.