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Old 08-04-2015, 02:38 PM
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Marmoset Marmoset is offline
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Default Hole design: when is "hard" too hard?

I like to design holes that have a very high risk/reward element. Many people complain about how tough many of my holes are because they demand technical excellence when you execute your throw.
How can I tell if a hole is unrealistically tough?
I have seen the PDGA design guideline chart but that is much too vague for the holes I design. Worded a different way, my holes tend to be too gimmicky to conform to the guideline chart.
For example:
One of my holes is in a parking lot. There is a strip of grass 4 feet wide by 150' long. This is the fairway. Asphalt around it is OB. Then there is a 15' gap of asphalt. Then a green that is 15' in diameter. OB asphalt all the way around, of course. Anyone can reach the green but it is so easy to go OB that it is frequently 3ed, 4ed, or 5ed. I have special OB rules similar to island rules to force the difficulty upwards.

Are holes like this too difficult?
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2015, 03:47 PM
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15' diameter is way too difficult in my opinion. 60' diameter would be more appropriate. Even the pros struggled with the island hole at the Scandinavian Open, which is about 226' long and maybe 40' diameter.
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Old 08-04-2015, 03:56 PM
mbntheman mbntheman is offline
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Let me give you the blunt short answer - YES!!!!!
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Old 08-04-2015, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmoset View Post
I

Are holes like this too difficult?
Are there any other holes like that?

The first 150' hardly matters---who's laying up on a 4' wide strip?

Basically, it's a 170' hole that you either park for a drop-in, or scuff your disc up on the asphalt.

Not so much too hard as too cute.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:04 PM
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First thing first: a 4' wide fairway is actually an UN-fairway. Hitting a fairway that narrow is a pretty lucky shot, even for the most precise players. Also, in the unlikely case that you did wind up on that fairway, you could never take a full meter perpendicular from the OB line...without being closer than 1 meter from OB on the other side. That fairway is so narrow that you can't even achieve the intent of the rules.

The 15' diameter green that's 170' from the tee pad is also too small. I suppose some high-level players would be able to park that on the regular, but I think that for the vast majority (myself included) it would be more luck than skill.

I appreciate that you're trying to test a very specific skill/shot, but at some point the challenge is too absurd. Unless you're designing a course to challenge the highest end of placement and precision, you're just necessarily punishing 'good' shots that aren't lucky enough to find the tiny IB area.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:33 PM
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Thanks for the feedback; almost all the courses in my area are heavily wooded so I designed my own course around my work building. I made the holes very tough to challenge shots that I have troubles with. Several people have played my course with me and the recurring question is, " why are you the only one that can play this course? "
I designed it with precise placement shots in mind
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:45 PM
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If it's your own course---not a public course---then you're the only one you have to please.

Personally, I like island holes....I just think that island's way too small. In my judgment, and island should at least be big enough that you can reach the island, and still miss the putt.
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Old 08-04-2015, 06:26 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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People need to feel like they are in control, or can at least influence the result, to enjoy playing.

Or, they need to have a huge payoff dangled in front of them.

If people are telling you they feel it is only by luck that they will hit the island, make the reward for landing safely on it an automatic 2 on this AND the next hole.
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Old 08-04-2015, 06:29 PM
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As long as the green is "slow" I would be ok with it(this might be one the few times I would be ok with putting up a small wall around the back of the green(maybe 6"-12" high.))
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Old 09-02-2015, 07:10 PM
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You enjoy these types of holes/shots, I don't.
It sounds like you are designing holes strictly on what you like.
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