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  #161  
Old 04-04-2019, 07:42 AM
Hyzflip10 Hyzflip10 is offline
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Originally Posted by rhatton1 View Post
Genuinely I really like the sort of planting by the greens that features in a lot of his made up holes! https://www.discolf.com/ small thick obstacle evergreen trees creating interest and difficulty around the greens. Land one side for an unobstructed putt, the other side will take some stretching but still be achievable whilst testing other skills.
Sure, this is taking it to the next level with infinite resources, time, money, and land.
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  #162  
Old 04-04-2019, 08:34 AM
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I don't understand why any of this needs to be fixed, ESPECIALLY after reading this thread.

YOU get better.
Why should the pros have to get worse? Yeah, nothing more entertaining than watching a bunch of people miss 15 footers. *fart noises*
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  #163  
Old 04-04-2019, 03:07 PM
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wolfmandragon wolfmandragon is offline
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Originally Posted by rhatton1 View Post
Genuinely I really like the sort of planting by the greens that features in a lot of his made up holes! https://www.discolf.com/ small thick obstacle evergreen trees creating interest and difficulty around the greens. Land one side for an unobstructed putt, the other side will take some stretching but still be achievable whilst testing other skills.
Don't let Big Jerm hear you say this. ::

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  #164  
Old 04-04-2019, 03:09 PM
Guurn Guurn is offline
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The answer is the same as it ever was, cones.

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  #165  
Old 04-04-2019, 03:35 PM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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Originally Posted by rhatton1 View Post
To take this on a step is anything truly random? a butterfly flapping it's wings etc.

When it comes to Disc Golf, tree hits 300' off the tee are for all intents and purposes random to every level of golfer and as such an uncontrollable element. It's not the same as playing for a sloped landing on a golf green where there is a much larger target to aim at and less variables to control ( I hit a tree one cm to the right and ricochet 50' into the woods, I hit 2 cms to the left and I park the basket - that's for all intents and purposes random)
Seems to me random and unfair is being defined by what you may or may not be used to for playing conditions. Someone who has learned the sport on wide open flat easily reachable, calm conditions might think Trees, water, OB, elevation, slopes, wind and rain, and long distance are all unfair with an element of randomness. Learning to play a slope, learning to play in wind, learning to play in the trees reduces your bad luck and increases your good luck. Maybe there is a touch of randomness but if you can see the good and the bad together it might be more palatable. I know I have a habit after a round of going back and saying "if only" on a lot of throws that could have ended better and calling it bad luck but do we do the same with good luck kicks?

Now as far as the marksman basket putting could in this conversation? Wind and Slopes both could play a role. From what I saw in a marksman putting league there is a pretty high incidence of head scratching spit outs I would only think that would be exasperated in the wind, actually to the point only putts you could make from arms length away. Also with increased spit outs roll-aways i'm sure would increase
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  #166  
Old 04-04-2019, 04:14 PM
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The answer is the same as it ever was, cones.

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  #167  
Old 04-04-2019, 04:30 PM
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Jenga54 Jenga54 is offline
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Originally Posted by XC_Eddy View Post
I am very much against changing the basket size at this stage in the game. Disc golf putting is different than ball golf putting, and that's fine. They aren't the same game. Disc golf doesn't have to have similar putting percentages to ball golf. They are games with similarities, but the differences beyond equipment are important, too. It's not a problem that shooting -18 in disc golf is easier than it would be to do in traditional golf.

Even with the current targets there is still scoring separation and the best players rise to the top. Furthermore, changing to narrow targets now, after players at all levels have acclimated to the current standard, would be especially frustrating. Have you ever played a round using marksman baskets? It's frustrating as all get out. Even doing winter putting league with those things is frustrating. You can drill the pole dead center and have the disc bounce off. I'm sure that there is touch involved, but it feels quite random and frustrating to get putts to stick in a marksman.

If the issue is that -40 for a 3 round tournament is too far under par, than make the par harder. Par is just a concept anyway. We're playing for strokes. Par is just a barometer that gives an idea of how well a player is shooting.

You want to see what pros putting on smaller target looks like. It's dumb. Here's some footage from the 2016 Canyon Springs Dash for Cash that used Marksmans for high level tournament play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGZXZctHjjA

Montage of people making putts on the Marksmans at about 2:30. The other side of it begins at 3:00. The spitouts are horrendous. Many pros hate it. I hate it. It's not more fun to watch than a round with regulation size baskets.

CCDG also has full coverage if you want to see more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzeruzZeFDY

There are other ways to make the game more difficult for top players that don't involve spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for new targets on all existing disc golf courses. Basket size is too fundamental a detail of the game to adjust. Adjust the putting circle to 15m instead of 10m. Put obstacles on or near the green that punish inaccurate approaches. Get creative, but leave the baskets alone.
Ridiculous commercial for DD (I get it, sell your wares) but be honest. This cut together people saying "I personally like it" "it's good for the game" and such.

This was 3 years ago... How come it hasn't been done again since??

Because it's a bad idea, and no one likes it.

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  #168  
Old 04-04-2019, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
Tree kicks aren't random. Don't hit the tree. If you do hit the tree, the direction and distance are dependent on the speed of the disc, and the position of the impact. It's very much like a cut shot in pool. Many things that folks like to call random, that are due to their own errors, aren't random at all.

The human body has physical limitations. Some holes are so tight that they exceed the physical limitations of an accomplished disc golfer. But a smarter disc golfer will break such holes down and play them a chunk at a time. Other players will go balls to the wall, but they know their skill will allow them to overcome the "randomness" in the out come of their poor decision. If the disc ends up being unplayable, that isn't random, it's due to their poor risk evaluation. Truth be told, we don't properly punish folks for poor risk evaluation, IMO.

Even a putt that rims off, turns over, landing on it's edge, and rolling away, isn't random. It happened because the putter took a shot that either they weren't capable of or weren't capable of at the moment. That is risk and skill assessment.

I see disc golfers take shots that a golfer, in a difficulty equivalent situation, would never take. They will take a measured putt that is meant to put their ball in the hole, but in which the ball will stop close to the hole if they miss. Disc golfers don't do this. They run it with no thought to what's behind the basket. If you over putt in a risky situation, the out come isn't random, it's what you've earned.

Nate Sexton accounts for this. He plays what many call conservative and boring golf. He will lay up within his skill set. Doing that made him one of the top golfers in the world, even though he doesn't have the raw skill or power of a McBeth or a Wysocki.
I think I agree with every point you make. I will add that tree kicks can be managed as well.
While more spin allows, generally, for more control on shaping certain shots like a hyzer flip, it also will cause the disc to fly on a longer tangent once an object has been hit.

Spin control is where I am trying to improve my game currently.
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  #169  
Old 04-05-2019, 10:53 AM
itsRudy itsRudy is offline
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Not a fan of making baskets smaller at all. The only reason I became a DGer is that I was walking in a park one day and noticed these strange large Pagan altars regularly spaced and didn't have an inkling what they heck they were. I went up to them, rattled the chains, and was like WTF?!?! I thought it was some type of bird nesting thing the park set up? It so baffled me I spent the next few days googling it.

Nor of bigger putters. That screws with bags and carrying them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Why always narrower, and not shorter (less vertical space)?
This.

Years ago, a tree dropped on the top of a basket on my course, it lowered the distance between top and bottom by 2 inches all around, and it's like twice as hard now. Seen the same effect on a basket another course where a tree fell and just crushed the front facing part.

That way, if they want to make putting harder, you can just put throw a <$10 round laundry basket with a hole cut in middle on top to reduce vertical clearance for a tournament and take them right off. Or put an attachable wire mesh guard zip tied to the bottom for a couple bucks.

Point is there's a lot of cheap ways to make the existing ones backwards compatible (and reversible) with this idea of less vertical clearance, not so much the others.

Last thing sport needs is some dumb huge changeover that costs a lot of $$$ for next to no benefit except making it harder for the top players at top tournaments. Magazines are always peddling dumb ideas as clickbait.

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  #170  
Old 04-07-2019, 04:26 PM
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Late to the posting party, but my idea is that it would be better to have more blue/gold level courses (I understand land is a premium, but this is just theoretical), and start emphasizing "putting greens". It seems as if people think of the "green" in disc golf as the 30 foot circle, maybe circle 2.

The way I look at it, I feel like the "disc golf putting green" should be defined as 100 feet around the basket (save for baskets on cliff edges and water, etc.). Making a 15 foot putt in disc golf is like hitting a 5 footer in golf. And my thoughts about longer courses just come into play based on the scale of what I think a "green" should be defined as.
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