#171  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:12 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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I agree - I've been posting/reading here for 6 years and in that time, we have had zero issues with disagreements - other than from time to time, people get cranky about some minor issue or another.

I think one time SW22 told me that I was orangutan and I called him an umpa-lumpa, - but we've all remained extremely aware that we're all standing on the shoulders of Blake & Brad (and others) that started the conversations online over at DGCR.

The thing about being involved in a group of people who study sports form, is that we realize that we're not creating this stuff in a silo - we're absorbing Shawn Clement, baseball analysis (throwing and batting), stuff that dg pros have said, and our own experiments - and then trying to share those insights.

When somebody comes into our tribe, the only thing that most of us get prickly about, is that somebody immediately declares their way the only right way or that things we've seen work very well being meaningless or wrongheaded.

This form stuff has to be able to withstand the rigors of debate, at a bare minimum, otherwise it just "feels right" and we have to avoid that trap, as powerful motions often require counter intuitive motions, that don't particularly feel powerful.

Anyways, I wanted to also just say that I appreciate ALL of you guys - it's great to see people from way back and it's great to see new blood in here too. I don't play nearly as often as I used to, but I still pop in everyday to see what's going on.
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  #172  
Old 05-15-2019, 02:26 PM
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drk_evns drk_evns is offline
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Bradley clearly had a knack for discovering and explaining processes in the disc golf throw. A lot of his insights really really really make a lot of sense. He didn't necessarily bring anything new to the table, but he did bring explanations and a different way of looking at things. He definitely helped me realize a few things personally. The way he describes and visualizes the "inward pull, outward ejection" and "arc" in the throw (and of course his old snap video) really are great ways to help get people to that feeling.

HOWEVER, he takes any scrutiny or questioning as a personal attack. He gets angry and flees. He spreads information fast and without care, and when he's wrong, he rarely acknowledges or explains. People actively seek out his advice on Facebook, and I often disagree with what he's saying. At first I tried replying and having a discussion, but he quickly disappears in frustration at my insolence. I think he blocked me.

It's a bummer. I tried to be very reasonable each time, knowing his demeanor, but we rarely came to an understanding or a place to learn from each other when talking. I think he can/will give a lot more to this DG community, it's just a shame it happens in such strange and syncopated ways.

In any case. Thanks to all the internet gurus of the past and present. You make the work days shorter and the field work longer.

edit: ALSO, ditto this...

Quote:
The whip out took me some work to keep from rounding, which is basically not completing the inward pull... or just starting the outward ejection early... actually goes back to the Beto drill. Take this info, and the outward swing and revisit the Beto drill not trying to throw the disc at the target but use that outward ejection arm motion.


Last edited by drk_evns; 05-15-2019 at 02:29 PM.
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  #173  
Old 05-16-2019, 12:06 AM
RFrance RFrance is online now
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Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
This form stuff has to be able to withstand the rigors of debate, at a bare minimum...
Basically peer review. It's what the scientific approach is all about.

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  #174  
Old 05-16-2019, 02:36 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by NathanNoodleArm View Post
Yup, ran him off but good. He hangs out on facebook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley Walker View Post
I am going to redefine disc golf instruction. I have decided.
You would think that someone who is so abrasive and cocky wouldn't be so fragile and run away from a civil disagreement.

Looks like he is just renaming what I called the "Chicken Wing Finish", into "Flapping". I'm still trying to wrap my peon brain around what much of what he is saying though. https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/f...f376cf90e04724

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  #175  
Old 05-16-2019, 05:53 AM
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I am totally lost with this maintaining closed shoulder with relaxed arm combo, I just can't do both at same time. Or, am I just way overthinking this stuff.
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  #176  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:05 AM
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I am totally lost with this maintaining closed shoulder with relaxed arm combo, I just can't do both at same time. Or, am I just way overthinking this stuff.
Assuming RHBH. Have an imaginary target. Stand with your shoulders pointing in a line to it. Step your left foot back so the toes of the left heel are about in line with the heel of the right foot.

Now move your right shoulder forward by about half a foot or more. Two ways to do this, either hunching the right shoulder forward or left shoulder swinging back, counter to the right going forward and turning from the hips (not waist, hips) . Do a bit of both ideally.

Dangle your arm as loose as it can possibly be from the shoulder. Voila. You've now got a closed shoulder with a loose arm.

The problem for most players is that when they shift their weight they shift into an open shoulder position by trying to throw hard (shoulders open early as they swing their weight from back to front and try to throw it all hard) .

Next step then is to get on your toes and shift your weight(not swing, shift is basically walking from foot to foot, your spine stays upright relative to the target line, it doesn't swing back and forth) from back foot to front foot. Maintain that closed shoulder until the weight has shifted.

That weight shift will automatically move the loose arm, if your body position is right (stacked and athletic and the shoulders still closed) you will feel your loose arm come first into the body and then swing out and away as it finds the way blocked by your still closed shoulder, much like the motion Brad describes trying to achieve.

This is where the majority of us here differ from Brad in that we say the body will set up the positions to allow the arm to swing. He believes you can trick the body into the correct positions by focusing on swinging the arm away.

I'm dubious that people on the internet will pick up his focus and do anything but strongarm with them as I can see so many ways to do his thing wrong. That's not to say it won't work, but I suspect you need someone with you who knows what they are doing to make it work properly. It's also not to say that it won't have some distance improvement for people that have so far not had a very good throw, that doesn't necessarily mean its the right building block to focus on.

One thing you find in the form journey is there are lots of dead ends after promising starts. The one constant that always makes you better is better balance. always. whatever you do better balance makes you better.


This forum has moved more and more to an idea of get as balanced and as athletic as you can be and the rest follows rather than trying to find some magic bullet to instant distance.

With that said the Closed Shoulder snap drill is still the best drill IMO for teaching a clean consistent Hit.


The king of driving with a closed shoulder Garrett Gurthie -



Last edited by rhatton1; 05-16-2019 at 07:07 AM. Reason: Words and stuff
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  #177  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:23 AM
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ThrowaEnvy ThrowaEnvy is online now
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Originally Posted by drk_evns View Post

HOWEVER, he takes any scrutiny or questioning as a personal attack. He gets angry and flees. He spreads information fast and without care, and when he's wrong, he rarely acknowledges or explains. People actively seek out his advice on Facebook, and I often disagree with what he's saying. At first I tried replying and having a discussion, but he quickly disappears in frustration at my insolence. I think he blocked me.

edit: ALSO, ditto this...
I agree that he was a bit "touchy" , "techhy" .. As one of the old guys that garnered a lot of respect on DGR it's tough to move over here and be a newbie. He had a nugget of great information but he didn't "word" good. There was some great discussion between SW22, Rhatton1 and him and luckily it's preserved in the different threads. There's a reason he may prefer Facebook so he could block you... I don't blame him, instead of trying to learn what he was saying you were busy picking him apart for poor wording and trying to pigeon hole his technique into SW22's teachings rather than trying some fieldwork before nitpicking it down.

I'm all for discussion etc but having a guy that's been throwing for a few years and constantly saying "Sidewinder says.." Is not entirely helpful. I generally like your posts and the info but I don't feel like you added to that particular discussion but rather escalated it like you were Joe Pesci and SW22 was the big brother that you kept saying was going to kick his ass.

Last edited by ThrowaEnvy; 05-16-2019 at 08:27 AM.
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  #178  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:58 AM
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Edited out.. Haha

I'm not saying everything Brad says is right necessarily but everyone has a different piece of the puzzle and they describe it in their own way. If you can understand the description you get another piece for your "puzzle" whatever your form might be.

I totally forgot about HUB's great info and RFrance too.. So many diagrams, contributors and ways of looking at that part of the throw. I learned so much in the week of those threads that it took months to process.

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  #179  
Old 05-16-2019, 12:09 PM
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drk_evns drk_evns is offline
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Originally Posted by ThrowaEnvy View Post
I'm all for discussion etc but having a guy that's been throwing for a few years and constantly saying "Sidewinder says.." Is not entirely helpful. I generally like your posts and the info but I don't feel like you added to that particular discussion but rather escalated it like you were Joe Pesci and SW22 was the big brother that you kept saying was going to kick his ass.
I stand by what I said. I agreed with most of what BW said here. In fact, if you read through this thread you can see me and him agreeing on almost everything. If I disagree with something I'm going to say it. If I'm wrong, then great, teach me why. If not, then I'm not going to back down because he's been on the internet discussing form for a long time.

Once he quit here and jumped to facebook, he was spreading this information on the Disc Golf Form Check group. Where lots of new people with little understanding are reading about stuff that Bradley is sharing. The problem is, as we all know, Bradley doesn't focus much on the lower body and I think the stuff he's talking about only works if you've already got a solid throw and a solid understanding of it. YOU HAVE TO in order to interpret what he is saying. It's more dangerous than sharing/exploring that stuff here where there are lots of people with more knowledge about technique.

I'm not going to apologize for OFTEN (almost every post) citing something of Sidewinder's... If that comes across as a little weird then so be it. He's usually right. I learned almost everything about the backhand from the stuff him and HUB have shared.

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  #180  
Old 05-16-2019, 05:59 PM
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Hey man I've got no problem with SW's advice, I love the engineering think through insight, no doubt he's the authority around here. It's been invaluable to my disc career. In fact I don't have a problem with your advice, it's usually solid, or for that matter anyone's advice, I try to interpret what they are saying but some of it I just skip over.

I'm positive BW would have left here anyways he was a little sensitive and egotistical. You can go back and check the posts but there's a bunch deleted because they don't contribute to posterity. Its obvious you two don't get along... I guess what got me going this morning was that after politely trolling him when he showed up here you bothered to follow him to Facebook and keep picking at him until he blocked you, then here you are this morning picking the bone again with the guy and he's not even here. You're right, you win, end of story.
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