#11  
Old 06-18-2008, 01:49 PM
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Great list
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  #12  
Old 09-27-2008, 02:20 PM
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Default Types of Rocs

Types of Rocs:
-Original Roc - “Wings & Rings”, named because of the logo,- flat XD style Roc, made in San Marino
-Classic San Marino Roc - original dome, made in San Marino. The San Marino was more like the Rancho than the Ontario[1]
-Classic Ontario Roc - slightly more domey, made in Ontario
-New Classic Roc - The Classic Roc is still in limited production and will be available from time to time. It is now in the category of an all-around disc. The two closest discs to it are the XD (not quite as stable) and the Ching Sniper which is a little faster and a little more stable.[2]
-Proto KC Roc - it has the disc going through the Innova logo and reads "the Choice of Champions."
-After Proto KC Roc - Has a bar through it; it came just after the Proto KC Rocs.
-Original KC Roc - made in Rancho Cucamonga. The first run KC Rocs have a bar going through the Innova logo and reads "Champion Discs."
-KC Roc - made in Rancho Cucamonga. (The number of Xs refers to the number of years that Climo is listed as World Champion. Eg.- 9 times = 9x.)
-Super Roc - made in Rancho Cucamonga. The "Rancho" mold is identical to that of the USDGC Champion Roc, the KC Pro Roc and the staple, DX Roc. The plastic is sleek and grippy like old school Pro Line material. The Super Roc will provide a unique feel and enhanced durability. Sales of these discs will help support the 2004 PDGA World Championships in Iowa.
-Special Edition (SE) Roc - made in Rancho Cucamonga
-Special Edition (SE) Super Roc (178-180g) - made in Rancho Cucamonga
-Champion Edition (CE) Roc - made for the USDGC.
o2001 version is the Rancho, sharper nose (i.e.- not blunt). Most overstable.
o2002- regular blunt nose. Least overstable of the CE Rocs
o2003- is the blunter nose KC 8x mold
o2004 – blunt nose
o2005- the "pre-release" run of 1000 '05s are a remake of the Ontario mold , as are the Special Blends (SBs). Since the SBs were advertised as straighter than the regular '05s, my guess is they're not blunt.[3]
-Pro Roc (used to be the Super Roc). Available in SE plastic in 2004.
·All of the discs referred to by the city are not of the old style mold. The classic Roc was subsequently produced from the old original mold, or one like it, for those that craved the old disc. The "new" type of Roc has been produced with three different city names on the bottom, first San Marino, then Ontario, and now Rancho Cucamonga.
·The flat XD style Roc (sometimes referred to as the Wings & Rings Roc) and the original dome Roc were made in San Marino. Then came the slightly more domey Ontario Roc. Now Innova has gone back to the flatter dome a la
San Marino Roc, and they are stamped with Rancho Cucamonga and this includes all KC Rocs, Super Rocs, and
the ever sought after Original KC Rocs and Special Edition Rocs. Finally to further complicate things there are some San Marino Rocs (both XD style and domed style) that some refer to as "triple ring Rocs." Look at the under side and in the middle you will see 3 distinct rings.
·Different KC Rocs have different characteristics. The 8x are stable. The 9x are understable.

History of the different kinds of Rocs:[4]

1) Original Roc 21.2 cm diameter - narrow rim, one of the first discs with a bead, and was basically a beaded version
of the XD. This disc was first released around 1987, and discontinued around 1992.

2) Classic Roc - was a re-release of the original mold and came out around 1995 (I think)

3) New mold Roc - which we have several variations of today - is a 21.7 cm disc and was first released in '88/89.
Basically they beefed up the rim of the original and made it significantly more stable.

3.1) San Marino Early runs were made in San Marino, CA (and are the most sought after - selling for $50+ on eBay). Early runs had the same "wings n rings" stamp as the original mold, and had just a little dome to the flight plate. “A couple runs in '91/92 were super flat and hard - the best rocs they ever made, IMO.”
·The San Marino was more like the Rancho than the Ontario. (Dave D.)[5]

3.2) Ontario Manufacturing was moved to Ontario, CA and a new mold was produced around 1994/95. These runs tended to be just a little domier in general than most San Marino's - but were still awesome straight flyers.

3.3) Rancho Cucamonga Rocs. The Rancho Cucamonga Rocs were yet another version/mold of the same disc - and early runs had retained the shape of those early 90's runs of San Marino's Hard and Flat and very stable.

3.4) KC Rocs The onset of the KC plastic has produced a number of variations of the new style Roc (I think all Rancho mold's - with a slightly different plastic) I can't really speak to the quality or flight variations of the Ranchos/ or KC's as I haven't gotten through my stack of San Marino's yet

3.5) Pro (SE) Rocs in 2004. The Pro Roc should be available Mar 2004. The Pro Roc is overstable in tests. Pro Rocs were made from the standard DX Rancho mold, which is the more stable version.[6] The "Rancho" mold is identical to that of the USDGC Champion Roc, the KC Pro Roc and the staple, DX Roc. The plastic is sleek and grippy like old school Pro Line material. The Super Roc will provide a unique feel and enhanced durability. Sales of these discs will help support the 2004 PDGA World Championships in Iowa.
See https://zonedriven.com/catalog/produ...roducts_id/239

·With the proto-Rancho and the proto-KC Roc; there is a difference between the two. The proto-Rancho was made in heavier weights only and had an Innova choice of champions rainbow stamp, the disc came in white only and has a disc through the logo. The proto KC is similar but has an enormous nipple that actually indents the top of the disc (exactly like the 8 time KC Roc). The logo was also similar but there are differences there as well. The Innova stamp doesn't say choice of champions and is a bar through the logo and not a disc. (from Joyup Lee)

USDGC Rocs
2003 more stable than 2002. (Dave D., 3/5/03)

2006:
·The "Star" Rocs are likely to be pretty hot for several reasons. They look and feel great. This is also the true "first run" of Star Rocs since Innova created the line. Star Rocs are stable (not overstable) like the Special Blend. They fly straighter and hold an incredible line.
·Star Rocs are pretty much the standard "Rancho" mold.
·Special Blend is more the "Ontario-style" mold, making them less stable than regular Champion or Glow. Special Blend Rocs should also prove popular as this is quite likely the final run of Special Blend discs. These, like the Star Rocs, are pretty straight flyers. Both gold and silver Special Blend Rocs are available. They are flippin' sweet.
·Regular Champion and Glow are all overstable pigs. If you prefer a meat hook, here you go.
·There was only one, truly clear disc. It weighs 180 and has a ghost "Eye Roc" stamp. Its whereabouts shall remain unknown at this time.

The numbers referenced refer to post #s on the PDGA Discussion Board.

[1] Dave Dunipace, #136649 - 02/02/04 08:46 AM

[2] Dave. D.

[3] CE Roc info mostly from Felix Sung but collected from Dave D’s info

[4] From Craig Gangloff on February 21, 2001

[5] #136649 - 02/02/04 08:46 AM

[6] Dave Dunipace, #149626 - 03/03/04 05:59 PM
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  #13  
Old 09-27-2008, 02:22 PM
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Olorin Olorin is offline
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See Roc City
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  #14  
Old 09-27-2008, 02:25 PM
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Olorin Olorin is offline
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Champion Roc Collector

2001 ZoneDriven Stamped "Clear" Innova CE Roc
Official Collector Guide & Registry
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  #15  
Old 09-27-2008, 07:39 PM
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Every thread about Rocs ends up reading like The Silmarillion.

Shark posts are so much easier... "they fly great, try one".
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  #16  
Old 09-27-2008, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shirfan View Post
Shark posts are so much easier... "they fly great, try one".

...was thinking the exact same thing.
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  #17  
Old 09-27-2008, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olorin View Post
Types of Rocs:
-Original Roc - “Wings & Rings”, named because of the logo,- flat XD style Roc, made in San Marino
-Classic San Marino Roc - original dome, made in San Marino. The San Marino was more like the Rancho than the Ontario[1]
-Classic Ontario Roc - slightly more domey, made in Ontario
-New Classic Roc - The Classic Roc is still in limited production and will be available from time to time. It is now in the category of an all-around disc. The two closest discs to it are the XD (not quite as stable) and the Ching Sniper which is a little faster and a little more stable.[2]
-Proto KC Roc - it has the disc going through the Innova logo and reads "the Choice of Champions."
-After Proto KC Roc - Has a bar through it; it came just after the Proto KC Rocs.
-Original KC Roc - made in Rancho Cucamonga. The first run KC Rocs have a bar going through the Innova logo and reads "Champion Discs."
-KC Roc - made in Rancho Cucamonga. (The number of Xs refers to the number of years that Climo is listed as World Champion. Eg.- 9 times = 9x.)
-Super Roc - made in Rancho Cucamonga. The "Rancho" mold is identical to that of the USDGC Champion Roc, the KC Pro Roc and the staple, DX Roc. The plastic is sleek and grippy like old school Pro Line material. The Super Roc will provide a unique feel and enhanced durability. Sales of these discs will help support the 2004 PDGA World Championships in Iowa.
-Special Edition (SE) Roc - made in Rancho Cucamonga
-Special Edition (SE) Super Roc (178-180g) - made in Rancho Cucamonga
-Champion Edition (CE) Roc - made for the USDGC.
o2001 version is the Rancho, sharper nose (i.e.- not blunt). Most overstable.
o2002- regular blunt nose. Least overstable of the CE Rocs
o2003- is the blunter nose KC 8x mold
o2004 – blunt nose
o2005- the "pre-release" run of 1000 '05s are a remake of the Ontario mold , as are the Special Blends (SBs). Since the SBs were advertised as straighter than the regular '05s, my guess is they're not blunt.[3]
-Pro Roc (used to be the Super Roc). Available in SE plastic in 2004.
·All of the discs referred to by the city are not of the old style mold. The classic Roc was subsequently produced from the old original mold, or one like it, for those that craved the old disc. The "new" type of Roc has been produced with three different city names on the bottom, first San Marino, then Ontario, and now Rancho Cucamonga.
·The flat XD style Roc (sometimes referred to as the Wings & Rings Roc) and the original dome Roc were made in San Marino. Then came the slightly more domey Ontario Roc. Now Innova has gone back to the flatter dome a la
San Marino Roc, and they are stamped with Rancho Cucamonga and this includes all KC Rocs, Super Rocs, and
the ever sought after Original KC Rocs and Special Edition Rocs. Finally to further complicate things there are some San Marino Rocs (both XD style and domed style) that some refer to as "triple ring Rocs." Look at the under side and in the middle you will see 3 distinct rings.
·Different KC Rocs have different characteristics. The 8x are stable. The 9x are understable.

History of the different kinds of Rocs:[4]

1) Original Roc 21.2 cm diameter - narrow rim, one of the first discs with a bead, and was basically a beaded version
of the XD. This disc was first released around 1987, and discontinued around 1992.

2) Classic Roc - was a re-release of the original mold and came out around 1995 (I think)

3) New mold Roc - which we have several variations of today - is a 21.7 cm disc and was first released in '88/89.
Basically they beefed up the rim of the original and made it significantly more stable.

3.1) San Marino Early runs were made in San Marino, CA (and are the most sought after - selling for $50+ on eBay). Early runs had the same "wings n rings" stamp as the original mold, and had just a little dome to the flight plate. “A couple runs in '91/92 were super flat and hard - the best rocs they ever made, IMO.”
·The San Marino was more like the Rancho than the Ontario. (Dave D.)[5]

3.2) Ontario Manufacturing was moved to Ontario, CA and a new mold was produced around 1994/95. These runs tended to be just a little domier in general than most San Marino's - but were still awesome straight flyers.

3.3) Rancho Cucamonga Rocs. The Rancho Cucamonga Rocs were yet another version/mold of the same disc - and early runs had retained the shape of those early 90's runs of San Marino's Hard and Flat and very stable.

3.4) KC Rocs The onset of the KC plastic has produced a number of variations of the new style Roc (I think all Rancho mold's - with a slightly different plastic) I can't really speak to the quality or flight variations of the Ranchos/ or KC's as I haven't gotten through my stack of San Marino's yet

3.5) Pro (SE) Rocs in 2004. The Pro Roc should be available Mar 2004. The Pro Roc is overstable in tests. Pro Rocs were made from the standard DX Rancho mold, which is the more stable version.[6] The "Rancho" mold is identical to that of the USDGC Champion Roc, the KC Pro Roc and the staple, DX Roc. The plastic is sleek and grippy like old school Pro Line material. The Super Roc will provide a unique feel and enhanced durability. Sales of these discs will help support the 2004 PDGA World Championships in Iowa.
See https://zonedriven.com/catalog/produ...roducts_id/239

·With the proto-Rancho and the proto-KC Roc; there is a difference between the two. The proto-Rancho was made in heavier weights only and had an Innova choice of champions rainbow stamp, the disc came in white only and has a disc through the logo. The proto KC is similar but has an enormous nipple that actually indents the top of the disc (exactly like the 8 time KC Roc). The logo was also similar but there are differences there as well. The Innova stamp doesn't say choice of champions and is a bar through the logo and not a disc. (from Joyup Lee)

USDGC Rocs
2003 more stable than 2002. (Dave D., 3/5/03)

2006:
·The "Star" Rocs are likely to be pretty hot for several reasons. They look and feel great. This is also the true "first run" of Star Rocs since Innova created the line. Star Rocs are stable (not overstable) like the Special Blend. They fly straighter and hold an incredible line.
·Star Rocs are pretty much the standard "Rancho" mold.
·Special Blend is more the "Ontario-style" mold, making them less stable than regular Champion or Glow. Special Blend Rocs should also prove popular as this is quite likely the final run of Special Blend discs. These, like the Star Rocs, are pretty straight flyers. Both gold and silver Special Blend Rocs are available. They are flippin' sweet.
·Regular Champion and Glow are all overstable pigs. If you prefer a meat hook, here you go.
·There was only one, truly clear disc. It weighs 180 and has a ghost "Eye Roc" stamp. Its whereabouts shall remain unknown at this time.

The numbers referenced refer to post #s on the PDGA Discussion Board.

[1] Dave Dunipace, #136649 - 02/02/04 08:46 AM

[2] Dave. D.

[3] CE Roc info mostly from Felix Sung but collected from Dave D’s info

[4] From Craig Gangloff on February 21, 2001

[5] #136649 - 02/02/04 08:46 AM

[6] Dave Dunipace, #149626 - 03/03/04 05:59 PM
This is why I don't use roc. This is also why I prefer discraft. I'm old and this is ay too complicated lol.

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  #18  
Old 09-27-2008, 10:46 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Lotsa good info there.

One thing kinda confused me...people often talk about "made in San Marino." I was eavesdropping on a bunch of guys talking to Dave Dunipace at the KC Wide Open one year, and he said there was no "San Marino" plant. He said in the early days they had molds and bid out work to other injection molding facilities in LA. The discs said "San Marino" because that is where the P.O. Box he opened to receive business mail was. According to what I heard back then, Innova did not make their own discs until they opened the Ontario shop.

A lot of the "San Marino" Rocs were made at the Ontario plant, and a lot of the "Ontario" Rocs were made at the Rancho Cucamonga plant because they did not change the underside engraving on the disc when they moved. The Aviar engraving said "San Marino" during the entire time they had the Ontario plant and for about the first 10 years they we using the Rancho Cucamonga plant.

So the location on the underside really only tells you where Innova was located when that mold piece was created. The location on the Millennium Sentinel for years said "San Marino" even though it was introduced two or three years after Innova moved to Rancho Cucamonga. It uses the same core piece as the Stingray, and the Stingray mold was created before the Ontario plant opened. That piece wore out a few years ago, and the disc now just has www.innovadiscs.com on the underside

One of the enduring myths is the story that the San Marino Roc had to be re-tooled because the mold broke during the move to the Ontario plant, but the truth is that the mold was used at the Ontario plant for several years. It wore out from all the runs made of it and had to be replaced.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:31 PM
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Olorin Olorin is offline
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Threeputt- That's some interesting scoop to add to the saga.
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  #20  
Old 09-27-2008, 11:35 PM
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Olorin Olorin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shirfan View Post
Every thread about Rocs ends up reading like The Silmarillion.
Some of us like the Silmarillion. But not everyone can be a Maia.

-Mithrandir

P.S.- After Frodo destroyed the ring it was really a Roc, not an eagle, that saved him and Sam.
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