#11  
Old 11-12-2018, 04:34 PM
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drk_evns drk_evns is offline
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People learn in different ways @Hoeschel, so it's good that you're trying new things.

A lot of people in disc golf assume that if you can do something well it means you understand it well. There's a reason Paul brought Sexton to all of his clinics... he's not a good teacher.... so don't always assume these pros are the best place to go for answers.

Will teaches some weird ****, and a lot of it will contradict what the "actual" answers should be. Most advice like this comes from a good place... he wants to help you throw further and he's able to do so in a certain way. However, it can also really hurt people unintentionally. Giving the advice to "widen your stance" is just pure awful.

I'd take a lesson from HUB or SW22 over almost anyone else in the world, honestly.
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2018, 04:44 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
How do you know that is not what seppo means? Have you seen him throw? He certainly does not tuck his chin into his chest.
Okay, so lots to discuss. First, this point was based on the fact that

A. Seppo keeps his head neutral during his throws.
B. David DGI does not keep his head neutral.
C. Seppo says, paraphrasing, you're doing alot of things well: you're keeping your head down, pulling through nice and high...

That would lead me to believe that he either missed that he's burying his chin, or that he believes that "head down" is itself a good teaching point.

I can't speak for Seppo, but I very much disagree with "keeping your head down" as I have personally suffered many wrenched necks because of that issue.

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Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
This part makes me unreasonably angry.
I'm sorry to hear that, zero point zero part of my response was intended to promote myself or poop on anybody. I've tried to make the point over and over that I'm only talking about what has worked for me - when I'm teaching or learning myself. I've gone down MANY paths that were chasing a by-product, not the initial action. It sucks to spend so much time working the wrong way.

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Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
Maybe its the language barrier but it sounds so condescending to me. I mean, you definitely know a lot more about form than me so i don't want to pass judgement, but if you go through your old blog-entries, is that really what you are doing?
My old blog entries are LOADED with ah-ha moments that were me chasing a by-product. I was documenting my struggles to improve. Most of the articles came out of these forums, phone calls, fieldwork sessions, etc. and point blank: I'm sure there is stuff in there that I'd now disagree with, but I don't go back and read the old posts.

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Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
Personally, i had a big breakthrough lately and all i had to do was ignore advice i got here (get to the right peck) and imitate the pros(never let you elbow collapse to <90°). Don't get me wrong, i absolutely appreciate all the videos, advice and discussions. I just have my doubts that the level of certainty displayed above is warranted.
That's awesome! I think that everybody has a path that's shortest to get to better form. I don't think there's a wrong way, there's just a way that I've seen work much faster.

I do not ever want to shut down a conversation, debate, or thought experiment that could be beneficial.

But, I do think that there's a very good way to help develop form or make a swing change that comes from these fundamental concepts that have been discussed and light-bulb-flipped-on in these forums in the last 6-12 months.

They're so much different than what I would have focused on in the last 5 years, but I think they're better because they've made me throw MUCH better and I'm now getting into the positions that I screen capped above, because instead of trying to get into that position, I am shifting correctly and then I have to get into that position.

I'm editing a video right now that will discuss the change and I'll post it up. And if somebody says, "hey, I disagree" - that's awesome, because then we can discuss it and maybe I'll learn more from it.

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  #13  
Old 11-12-2018, 08:30 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2018, 10:53 PM
RFrance RFrance is offline
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Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
A lot of great stuff here HUB. The video really explains the Shifting Correctly thread (maybe post there as well? )

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Old 11-13-2018, 01:31 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
This part makes me unreasonably angry. Maybe its the language barrier but it sounds so condescending to me.
I think it was more of inside joke about someone else unrelated to this thread. It has been decided for the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
Personally, i had a big breakthrough lately and all i had to do was ignore advice i got here (get to the right peck) and imitate the pros(never let you elbow collapse to <90°).
I'm confused, you had a big breakthrough by ignoring the advice I gave you? Also confused on how you can collapse the elbow less than 90 degrees without being at the right pec - although I didn't advise you to do either of those things.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=128795

Last edited by sidewinder22; 11-13-2018 at 01:45 AM.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:26 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by mizunodave View Post
I got one from Seppo recently too. Both Will and Seppo are available for these through their discgolfinstruction site.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjPH...ature=youtu.be
So, basically what I said before except for the head part.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...0&postcount=11

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Old 11-13-2018, 02:40 AM
ALT-J ALT-J is offline
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Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
My old blog entries are LOADED with ah-ha moments that were me chasing a by-product. I was documenting my struggles to improve.
Can you open this concept of by-product a little? Just very curious to know more of your process
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Old 11-13-2018, 03:38 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by ALT-J View Post
Can you open this concept of by-product a little? Just very curious to know more of your process
For example "You should pivot on your heel".

Yes most pro's pivot on their heel. But if you try to do this too much you can end up being way behind your plant foot to the back of the teepad, or too far to the right of the teepad. Either way over-emphasizing the heel weight so that you don't rotate on your toes, but you didn't necessarily get to a better or correct situation.

Or similarly, "follow through fully"...

Yeah but both follow through and heel pivot are a result of being upright and balanced on the plant leg. If you are balanced on the plant leg your foot will release with the heel mostly being pressured, and you will swing through with your trailing/off shoulder ending up facing the target.

These are just common sayings, but for example you can't just focus on follow through...it's a byproduct of being in balance until that point.

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  #19  
Old 11-13-2018, 03:51 AM
Hoeschel Hoeschel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drk_evns View Post
I'd take a lesson from HUB or SW22 over almost anyone else in the world, honestly.
Me too.

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Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
...
I really don't disagree with anything you say here nor did i disagree with much of your original post. The only thing i really took issue with was the tone. I did not learn anything from those critiques and if you disagree with their content i think you should absolutely say so. But I want people to post these critiques here for everyone to see because maybe something interesting will come out of it. And i felt that the blanket summary you concluded with (based on one vid for each one) was really discouraging that.

I was only reading through it after the fact, but i got the impression that Bradley Walker coming in here and laying out his ideas got you and others rethinking or at least refining some important concepts, even if you ultimately disagree with a lot of what he says. But i feel that some people, with a little less trust in their views, could have easily been dissuaded from presenting their thoughts here. I guess i wish this place would be more welcoming in that regard and since your word counts for a lot on here and that puts you in a position where you could make that happen. But what i saw in that post was the exact opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
I'm confused, you had a big breakthrough by ignoring the advice I gave you?
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=128795
I was not thinking about that (or you) at all. Your replies really helped me and i am thankful for them. I think i should have said "teachings" instead of advice. And for the record, i don't remember you teaching the elbow forward/right pec thing.

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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Also confused on how you can collapse the elbow less than 90 degrees without being at the right pec.
You can't. Thats my point. The elbow should never be less than 90 degrees which is not something you can achieve from the right pec position.
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2018, 04:35 AM
BHock87 BHock87 is offline
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I just want to say thanks for all of the discussion in this thread. That new video was a great watch too. I think at one point I may have had better form but abandoned it because I was early releasing. I'm know thinking it was because I was trying to rotate too fast and couldn't hold on to this disc.

I'll post a full form video sometime and see where I'm at. Thank you for all you guys do around here.
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