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View Poll Results: Putting is?
Putting is too easy, narrower basket would be nice on challenging courses 84 17.43%
Putting is about right, keep the basket size 383 79.46%
Putting is too hard, Make the baskets bigger 15 3.11%
Voters: 482. You may not vote on this poll

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  #281  
Old 12-24-2016, 03:25 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Maybe. Give it a try.

I'm not offended by speed putts. I don't find them aesthetically or morally inferior to soft putts.

I'm not convinced that any of this improves the game. I'd like to see it tried, on a demonstration basis, see how it goes.
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  #282  
Old 12-24-2016, 03:29 PM
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.....but, heck, assume for the sake of argument that a shorter target would favor hard putts, and that hard putts are a bad thing. For the sake of argument.

If there are benefits to it, in lowering putting percentages as various differences, emphasizing the approach game, and all of the other things smaller-target advocates swear by---if, for the sake of argument, those benefits are true, then would favoring hard putts be a compelling enough negative to outweigh the positives?
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  #283  
Old 12-24-2016, 04:52 PM
Karl Karl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
.....but, heck, assume for the sake of argument that a shorter target would favor hard putts, and that hard putts are a bad thing. For the sake of argument.

If there are benefits to it, in lowering putting percentages as various differences, emphasizing the approach game, and all of the other things smaller-target advocates swear by---if, for the sake of argument, those benefits are true, then would favoring hard putts be a compelling enough negative to outweigh the positives?
Initially, I'm thinking not. There should be other ways to put into effect 'harder putting (statistically)' and also (re)introduce the 'touch aspect' into the game.
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  #284  
Old 12-24-2016, 05:51 PM
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I wasn't certain that the cited 50/50 range was a true statistic based on thousands of putts, or tens of thousands.

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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
They're rarely going to 3-putt, anyway.
PGA Tour pros don't three-putt too often either, FWIW.

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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Changing the percentages changes the distances, so it changes the distances for the borders of all of these zones. We still end up with them.
Of course. It also affects the zone from 100 to 180' out, as Houck says, which results in basically 2.0 throws for top players. That zone would shrink, and likely move closer to the basket, because rather than putting a disc to 20' or whatever, they'd have to put it to maybe 10' (or whatever the "gimme" range was).

That 80' range is pretty wide. It's boring, a foregone conclusion that they're basically gonna get 2.

Again, except for the long putts, putting is not exciting at all. You'd still have long putts made, but instead of them being 85 footers, they'd be 60 footers.

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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Putting more premium on precision drives and long approaches---hitting smaller Zone 1s and 2s---is a benefit.
I agree. For even a 900-rated player, there are distances where 2.0 are virtually guaranteed. That zone is probably a little too wide as well.

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And in weighing that, we have to ask what the goal is---spectator disc golf, or participation disc golf. Would it really be more fun for everyday players?
There's more to it than that: about what's ultimately the best version of the sport, with the right emphasis and the right amount of emphasis on the various parts of the game.

Now, there's no one right answer. Different people are going to feel differently.

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My opinion is that it depends on how much more difficult. I'd love to see baskets a bit smaller than the current ones, but not dramatically.
I'm not in favor of Bullseyes, but I do think something smaller would be good. The current baskets are too easy (IMO). If I get to within 20' I feel like I'm virtually automatic from there. That feels too easy to me.

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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
My wish is that the advocates would run more test events, and see how it affects scoring, scoring spread, strategy, and player enjoyment. The trick is that it's easier to do this with smaller events---in fact, I think the PDGA would love it if people did---than for events with top players.
The PDGA won't sanction an event done on smaller baskets right?





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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
While I do not agree that baskets need to be harder (I too play on a lot of challenging greens and I too believe the result is just more laying up) I do agree that making them smaller vertically is likely the way to go. For one thing it would be easy to do with nothing but a drill.
The results in the video above were between 2 and 9 strokes, IIRC.
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  #285  
Old 12-24-2016, 05:55 PM
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As a new guy who has played a little and watched a lot, my initial impression of DG putting is that it is way too easy for MPO/FPO players.

I would lean towards really difficult greens if you want to level the field and add variability. If two out of every three putts from inside of 50' would be a death putt, then the mental/strategic game might become much more important.

Since I miss more than I hit from outside 20', take this comment for what it is worth.
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  #286  
Old 12-24-2016, 06:06 PM
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I feel disc golf needs people that want to watch it that are not disc golfers. Make it more difficult and really showcase the pros skills and more ppl will hopefully watch. I feel like the way disc golf is set up is limiting the pros skills set.

Narrow baskets, and no more par 4s. Everything is a 3. I don't care how long the hole is.

Discs are the only thing that makes money in disc golf. That's sad.

If someone has better ideas feel free to help. It's easy to downplay someone's solution. Especially if u don't have one to contribute.

If we get more money from sponsors we get more courses, more pros, and better competition and exposure. I'm sick of seeing drone racing and robot fighting and ping pong get more play on tv.

If we want good chunks of land we have to have more money in the sport. Some of the best courses are privately funded and maintained. What makes ppl think the next generation to own that land will use it for disc golf?
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  #287  
Old 12-24-2016, 06:10 PM
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Drone racing and robot fighting are the wave of the future; when humans are enslaved to machines; of course they get more airtime. Are you not paying attention to the world? Now ping pong, that's just an indication that "the east" as your rulers and masters is on the horizon...
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  #288  
Old 12-24-2016, 08:22 PM
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I believe the PDGA will sanction events on smaller baskets, at least as X-tiers.

In fact, my understanding the is that the new committee (can't recall it's name, and am too lazy to look it up) wants people to test out some of these ideas, and produce some better data than mere conjecture.

Now, the hard part is to do it at an event drawing top pros. Otherwise, it's a demonstration event with attendance like a local C-tier, perhaps B-tier. Which may not provide the exact data that you want.
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  #289  
Old 12-24-2016, 08:24 PM
Steve West Steve West is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
I wasn't certain that the cited 50/50 range was a true statistic based on thousands of putts, or tens of thousands...
Tens of putts.
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  #290  
Old 12-24-2016, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
The disc golf chart will not increase at nearly the rate that the golf chart does, though. It may never get as high as the golf chart, because from 8' golf is 1.5 strokes for pros, while from 8' disc golf is nearly 1.0 strokes. The disc golf chart should start off very very flat, and then rise from there.

They may cross at some point, but in golf I limited the putting to 100 footers, and that's 2.45 for golf. I don't think that even in disc golf you'd see 2.45 from 100 feet.
I think you are misunderstanding me in the same way as your previous reply to my first graph. Again, it's not the scale of the graphs that matter at all in my argument. Obviously, the ball golf curve is going to be using a different scale and must be shrunk/enlarged to overlap nicely on the curve of a different sport such as disc golf. If you are familiar the statistics term, it is simply a form of normalization.

I'm saying it's the shape of the curve that should be adjusted to our goals for putting, whatever they may be.
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