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  #71  
Old 06-06-2019, 12:58 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
As ever, my $0.02 is to suggest you leave one of the discs out of the bag for a round and see if you miss it. If you do, then put it back in the bag; if not, reconsider if it needs to be in there or if another 'overlapping' disc can do its job.

Also, i went through just this question myself: how many and which OS discs to bag. I've ended up with the Harp and the Banshee (or Jen Allen Teebird), and left the OS mids such as the Hornet out. That's been working for me on my home course; YMMV, of course.
He could have a use for both discs, the Morter for longer os midrange shots that even a putter like the Zone could make. I say he takes out Zone first as that is the shorter disc and Morter a longer disc could do what the shorter Zone putter could by toning down the disc more. The other way first is asking for the Morter to stay for longer distance the Zone will not reach. I say put in a shorter OS fairway like a Banshee or a Viper as the Zone is almost a midrange anyhow.
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Last edited by Casey 1988; 06-06-2019 at 01:02 PM.
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  #72  
Old 06-06-2019, 03:35 PM
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aphilso1 aphilso1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Silver Rider View Post
I dont understand the ultra beef folks that want a disc that just dies out of the hand.. the envy has 4 glide (which i consider low for this speed) and is perfectly rangeable in every "approach" condition i have ever thrown it, get it in soft neutron for a bit more beef if thats what you want and it sticks like velcro when it lands. The Envy also handles off axis torque and wind like its non existent.

If we were talking putter drives off the tee that you want to be more beefy (but where not, the topic is approaches) then i would say maybe something like a zone.. but even then i still use the most OS Envy in my bag for that because it works. I think we can get to the point where a disc has too much dump and no glide and then its also hard to range at farther distances because you have to put so much on it to get it there, personally i like beef and lower glide, but a happy medium.. not too far to one extreme or the other.
I carry a pretty healthy number of throwing putters:
Ti Zone / beat Jawbreaker Zone / Eclipse Envy / Neutron Proxy.

Personally, I actually see more overlap in the Envy and Proxy than I do with the Zone (even the beat JB one) and Envy. They're entirely different discs. While the roles can vary if I want a slightly different shot, in general I drive with an Envy and approach with either one of the Zones or the Proxy. My thought process is typically this for an approach:
1. Is a wide backhand hyzer shot a high probability shot? If yes, then backhand approach with JB Zone.
2. If no to 1, is a wide forehand hyzer approach a high probability shot? If yes, then flick the Ti Zone.
3. If no to 1 and 2, is a pure straight shot a high probability shot? If yes, then backhand the Proxy.
4. If no to 1, 2, and 3, then get creative.

Not saying this is the best way to mentally approach approaches (no pun intended), but it seems to work OK for me. Some days I'm more confident in a certain shot shape or disc, so the decision-making process might fluctuate. But that's my mentality. And the Envy does find itself in the mix for approaches some days too, especially if I've been driving it great and just want to stick with the disc that is hot.
Oh, and disagree on the Envy being great in wind. It chews up OAT like a champ, but 20+ mph headwinds (which we do get here in Nebraska) and I'm relying on a Zone instead. But 10-15 mph it is fine with, and it is defintely better at wind than most other putters I've dabbled with. Certainly not the same as Zone-level wind fighting though.
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  #73  
Old 06-06-2019, 03:54 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by Alexplz View Post
Anyway at this point I'm wrestling with just how many OS approach discs to bag. Really like the Mortar as an OS mid, really like the Zone as an OS upshot disc, but I wonder if they overlap to a degree. With this in mind, thinking of bagging one of the slightly slower OS approach options, or even skipping the Mortar entirely. Might just bag both and allow them to overlap a bit just to make sure slow OS shots are fully covered.
I think for me they would overlap a lot on FH approaches. It's really easy for me to adjust my touch for FH shot power, and if a disc is just slightly too beefy, you can add anny angle really easy on a FH approach so it flexes out instead of skipping. On a backhand approach a more OS disc will be very apparent to me, the stability and speed change is way more crucial to me for BH shots.

So in short ranges I think it'd just be different characteristics for mid diameter vs. putter diameter. Personal preference on lines and flight expectations. If you start pushing those discs out to your 80% power range then see if they show some useful differences in flight shape/glide/wind to be unique.

Edit: I just looked up the Mortar and its diameter is apparently 21.2 only. I've only thrown one a couple times but I thought I got a bit more carry out of it than a Zone.

Last edited by slowplastic; 06-06-2019 at 03:56 PM.
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  #74  
Old 06-06-2019, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I think for me they would overlap a lot on FH approaches. It's really easy for me to adjust my touch for FH shot power, and if a disc is just slightly too beefy, you can add anny angle really easy on a FH approach so it flexes out instead of skipping. On a backhand approach a more OS disc will be very apparent to me, the stability and speed change is way more crucial to me for BH shots.

So in short ranges I think it'd just be different characteristics for mid diameter vs. putter diameter. Personal preference on lines and flight expectations. If you start pushing those discs out to your 80% power range then see if they show some useful differences in flight shape/glide/wind to be unique.

Edit: I just looked up the Mortar and its diameter is apparently 21.2 only. I've only thrown one a couple times but I thought I got a bit more carry out of it than a Zone.
Def more carry than a zone. Midrange carry and glide with small diameter - unique characteristics in a mid.

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  #75  
Old 06-06-2019, 06:41 PM
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Mr. Butlertron Mr. Butlertron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer93 View Post
Why do you even need one? Just learn to throw your putters well. If the wind is ripping, disc up to the equivalent of a gator. I don't even own an overstable putter/approach disc...
I believe this is a fair question. Often the best solution is the simplest.

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Originally Posted by The Albatross View Post
As someone who throws Wizards into the 300 foot range on the regular, I can say that there is absolutely a use for overstable approach discs.
What does this even mean? I've thrown 7x more courses than you and I throw wizards, I guess that means my opinion trumps yours?

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  #76  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:20 PM
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The Albatross The Albatross is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Butlertron View Post
What does this even mean? I've thrown 7x more courses than you and I throw wizards, I guess that means my opinion trumps yours?
It means when you get good enough, you’ll notice the difference.

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  #77  
Old 06-07-2019, 05:19 AM
racer93 racer93 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Albatross View Post
It means when you get good enough, you’ll notice the difference.

Overstability is a crutch for most players. Top guys have been throwing stable (NOT OS) plastic in windy situations with excellent results. What did guys do 25 years ago with no (or very, very few) options for OS p&a discs? They had the skills to get results using the generally understable plastic. As an example, I've watched Dave Greenwell do this very thing, time and time again.

It's all about technique, not about the plastic you throw.

BTW, I throw p2s over 350' on the regular, so I do practice what I preach.

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Last edited by racer93; 06-07-2019 at 05:22 AM.
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  #78  
Old 06-07-2019, 09:20 AM
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Innova63 Innova63 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flick Maniac View Post
Dont know how "slow" you really consider the Gator, but the puddle topped Scott Withers color glows.... man, I've never thrown a disc so opposed to being in the air before.
Haven't tried the Stego?

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  #79  
Old 06-07-2019, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Rider View Post

If we were talking putter drives off the tee that you want to be more beefy (but where not, the topic is approaches) then i would say maybe something like a zone.. but even then i still use the most OS Envy in my bag for that because it works. I think we can get to the point where a disc has too much dump and no glide and then its also hard to range at farther distances because you have to put so much on it to get it there, personally i like beef and lower glide, but a happy medium.. not too far to one extreme or the other.
As much as I approve of your love for the Envy I can see a few shots where I can use the entropy around here just for the reliable dumpy turn. Ones a tunnel FH at 180' with a hook at the end, the other is a downhill FH at about 240' where if you miss it goes down the mountain. Personally I have issues packing a disc for two or three holes though so I'm kinda split on that, I haven't really taken the Entropy in the bag for more than practice rounds.

Lately I rediscovered haha my soft electron Envy for driving on a dead straight line... the more familiar I'm getting with them after 5+ years the more tempted I am to pack three of them haha. Soft electron and plasma at 165g and neutron 172 for FH... but 3 Envy's in a 7 disc bag also seems weird.

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  #80  
Old 06-07-2019, 10:15 AM
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For a long time I was carrying at least 4 throwing putters in my normal bag, including a massively overstable Armor Scale. Playing a lot of quick lunchtime and travel rounds with a slim bag really changed my opinion of what's needed.

A fresh stable putter (Wizard in my case) can do plenty in high winds. And the overstable midranges (Mortar, Caiman, Gator, Zone, etc.) all power down very well. So now I carry a Caiman and two throwing Wizards, that's it. Makes the decisions a lot easier, and lets me just focus on making the shot.

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