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Old 09-02-2014, 02:32 PM
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jchoate7 jchoate7 is offline
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Default 3 Minute Search Rule

I was playing in a tournament this past weekend and most of the groups were threesomes with only two groups of four. It got me thinking about the 3 minute rule in searching for a disc and how the two groups of four had a distinct advantage when it came to this. The rules state in 805.05 that all members of the group must be searching, the start of time must be announced and the search will be for 3 minutes. A group of four over a group of three would have a distinct advantage in this case because the group of four, in theory, would have a total of 3 more minutes of search time. A group of three would have 9 minutes and a group of four would have 12 min. What are DGCR's thoughts on this? Discuss!
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  #2  
Old 09-02-2014, 02:44 PM
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If you are going to take that into account, you also have to account for groups that have caddies and give them even less time?

The fact is, the difference between 3 and 4 searchers really isn't that great. If you're keeping a good eye on it, the search area is pretty small and 3 minutes is plenty for a group of 3 to cover that entire area. A fourth person adds redundancy, but not necessarily extra coverage.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:38 PM
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It's not 3 minutes per person per disc, it's three minutes per disc. The only advantage is having an extra person to help look.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:12 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird888 View Post
It's not 3 minutes per person per disc, it's three minutes per disc. The only advantage is having an extra person to help look.
That's the same thing though...

If one person spends 3 minutes in one spot, another person spends the same 3 minutes in an adjacent spot. That is the equivalent of the same person spending 6 minutes searching through both spots.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:21 PM
Sir Puttsalot Sir Puttsalot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird888 View Post
It's not 3 minutes per person per disc, it's three minutes per disc. The only advantage is having an extra person to help look.
I think that is what op was saying...that is 9 min of labor vs 12 min of labor.

We could make the counter argument that with a greater number, comes the greater likelihood of losing/searching for discs. Not a direct impact on the game per se, but is the effort put forth in searching for any lost disc truly negligible?

A smaller group/numbers would encourage more effort by the individuals vs a larger group making less effort per person on average.

But then with a greater effort, wouldn't the effect on cardmates be greater.

But does greater effort/less time trump lesser effort/greater time?

It's a curious question. My best answer is that its zero sum.

A sidenote the rules state cardmates 'must assist', no where is there a stated standard in effort. Thusly I treat this rule as more than a courtesy, but less than a rule. Frankly, I have zero expectations on assistance from cardmates other than a 'show of effort'. I know I will not be walking a 2nd time into knee deep poison ivy because a cardmate refuses to bag their camo dyed nuke.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:26 PM
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The odds of a player losing a disc in a group of 3 is less than in a foursome.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:29 PM
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Keep in mind, too, that the purpose of the rule is to promote pace-of-play. It is not intended to ensure that all players have exactly the same likelihood of finding their lost discs. 3 minutes is ample time for a group of 3 or more to sufficiently search an area without taking so long to hold up the entire tournament.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:33 PM
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You can't look at this lost disc scenario in isolation because it's not the only trade-off between playing in a 3-some, 4-some or 5-some. For example, those who like to play fast may play better or at least enjoy their round better in a 3-some versus more in the group.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird888 View Post
It's not 3 minutes per person per disc, it's three minutes per disc. The only advantage is having an extra person to help look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by threevok View Post
The odds of a player losing a disc in a group of 3 is less than in a foursome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradharris View Post
Keep in mind, too, that the purpose of the rule is to promote pace-of-play. It is not intended to ensure that all players have exactly the same likelihood of finding their lost discs. 3 minutes is ample time for a group of 3 or more to sufficiently search an area without taking so long to hold up the entire tournament.


All three of these responses are correct in my opinion.
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:09 PM
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bobmcnelly bobmcnelly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradharris View Post
Keep in mind, too, that the purpose of the rule is to promote pace-of-play. It is not intended to ensure that all players have exactly the same likelihood of finding their lost discs. 3 minutes is ample time for a group of 3 or more to sufficiently search an area without taking so long to hold up the entire tournament.
This. It's really annoying when groups don't enforce this rule and end up holding up the entire tournament.
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