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Old 03-27-2015, 08:32 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Default "No Icky Stuff" Tournament

For the National Senior Games, I want to let everyone play the entire tournament on nice mowed grass.

There are enough trees and hills to keep it plenty interesting. However, there are some woods, thorns, steep muddy hills etc. that could be within reach of bad throws. I don't want to force 85 year old women to go get their discs if that happens.

I know they have the re-throw option, but that seems severe, and they might just throw into the woods again.

One option is to mark a couple of miles of lines at the edge of the nice grass and call the woods OB. But that has three problems:
I don't want to leave paint on the course (or take the time to paint the lines),
I would prefer not to assign a penalty for going a couple of feet into what is normally not OB, and
the edges are mostly parallel to the fairway so it would be difficult to determine where the disc went OB.
What I would rather do is have a rule like: "The wooded areas are casual relief areas. If your disc lands off of the mowed grass area, you can mark your lie at the spot that is nearest your disc on the mowed grass, but no closer to the hole."

My question is: Would this cause confusion or arguments about whether relief can be taken or not?
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Old 03-27-2015, 08:57 AM
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I don't think so. If you clearly state that anything off the mowed grass is casual relief, and individual groups agree on if this has happend, and agree on the lie, I would forsee little problems.

Our courses down here are mostly wooded, and have dense jungle rough. So we usually let noobs throw from the fairway if they drift off into the schule (females), or use the "3 step rule" (males). I don't want someone to get discouraged from playing just beacause we have difficult courses.

Last edited by thrembo; 03-27-2015 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 03-27-2015, 08:58 AM
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I think as long as it was explained thoroughly before the start everything should work ok.
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Old 03-27-2015, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
For the National Senior Games, I want to let everyone play the entire tournament on nice mowed grass.

There are enough trees and hills to keep it plenty interesting. However, there are some woods, thorns, steep muddy hills etc. that could be within reach of bad throws. I don't want to force 85 year old women to go get their discs if that happens.

I know they have the re-throw option, but that seems severe, and they might just throw into the woods again.

One option is to mark a couple of miles of lines at the edge of the nice grass and call the woods OB. But that has three problems:
I don't want to leave paint on the course (or take the time to paint the lines),
I would prefer not to assign a penalty for going a couple of feet into what is normally not OB, and
the edges are mostly parallel to the fairway so it would be difficult to determine where the disc went OB.
What I would rather do is have a rule like: "The wooded areas are casual relief areas. If your disc lands off of the mowed grass area, you can mark your lie at the spot that is nearest your disc on the mowed grass, but no closer to the hole."

My question is: Would this cause confusion or arguments about whether relief can be taken or not?
Sounds like it'd work. One thing to keep in mind is, if it's all older folks, you *probably* won't run into a bunch of rules-lawyering young punk-asses trying to rinky-dink their way to winning.

Hopefully the wiser older generations keep everything in the fair and fun spirit of competition.
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Old 03-27-2015, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrembo View Post
I don't think so. If you clearly state that anything off the mowed grass is casual relief, and individual groups agree on if this has happend, and agree on the lie, I would forsee little problems.

Our courses down here are mostly wooded, and have dense jungle rough. So we usually let noobs throw from the fairway if they drift off into the schule (females), or use the "3 step rule" (males). I don't want someone to get discouraged from playing just beacause we have difficult courses.
Note that just calling it casual won't work. Casual relief is backwards.

Last year, for rather unusual reasons, I requested and was granted a rules waiver to allow lateral relief from a casual area on a particular hole. Not knowing the course, I don't see where this would be a particular problem.

You might flag the area, declare it casual, with lateral relief to 1 meter from the line.
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Old 03-27-2015, 10:54 AM
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You could make shots landing off the fairway (that didn't land OB) optional casual relief where a "no penalty" rethrow can be their next throw if they choose not to throw from where they landed. They're going to have to retrieve their disc anyway. So they can pitch out for their next throw or rethrow from previous lie and in both cases they would be lying the same number of throws.

Last edited by Cgkdisc; 03-27-2015 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 03-27-2015, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
You could make shots landing off the fairway (that didn't land OB) optional casual relief where a no penalty rethrow can be their next throw if they choose not to throw from where they landed. They're going to have to retrieve their disc anyway. So they can pitch out for their next throw or rethrow from previous lie and in both cases they would be lying the same number of throws.
I think this is more in line with PDGA rules.


Have you guys ever been to a Senior Games? These are not old people with walkers and wheel chairs. These are vibrant, physically active adults that would not be afraid of some rough terrain on the disc golf course.

Last year as US Masters, I played with an over 80 Senior Legend that could do squats while lifting 185 pounds.

A quick poll here: How many squats could you do while holding 185 pounds?

So, think twice before coddling these Senior Athletes. The key word here is "Athlete".
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Old 03-27-2015, 12:41 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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I’ll consider the no-penalty re-throw. I think the lateral relief comes more naturally. I think marking near the position of the disc would speed up play more than re-throw.

We hope to have volunteers to retrieve the discs.

I’ve been to several senior games. I’ve never seen anybody doing squats in a patch of wild roses. Athleticism and tolerance (for thorns, nettles, poison ivy. mud, water, and mosquitos) are not the same thing. I’m trying to eliminate one reason why some of the other athletes at Senior Games might not want to try out the demonstration sport.

Actually, one reason for not making it OB is so that players still have the option of getting scratched up and dirty. That's probably how I'll play it.

The course will still be plenty tough, just not irritating.
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Old 03-28-2015, 12:41 PM
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Steve

You wouldn't do this for any normal PDGA event. Why would you do it just because old people are playing? I really don't believe we have to have this conversation. We are Seniors, we are old. We are not frail or weak or afraid of stickers.


Are you doing this to save the time and effort it takes to mark all the OB lines?

Are you doing this to save poor little old people from getting scratched or being exposed to poison ivy and "speed of play"?


Tell it for what it is. I am telling you the Seniors do not want "special" treatment because we are "old". If you don't want to mark the OB, don't mark the OB. But don't say this is because you are worried some old lady can't go in the bushes and thorns to play or retrieve her disc. I am perfectly capable of going in the bushes and retrieving a disc just like your "young" volunteers. And I can do it all that and not hold up play.




And the Speed of Play excuse? Again, we are old, we are not slow or feeble. How many folks do you think will be playing? How many played last year? I doubt there will be 72 players, which means there will be empty holes on the course to prevent waiting. Plus, there is plenty of daylight to get in multiple rounds in one day, even if there are some super slow "old people" on the course.

Grrrr. This is part of the reason for Senior Games. To give folks over 50 a place to compete. And compete hard. Not just go through the motions. I doubt anyone playing in this National event will be playing disc golf for the first time.

If you don't have time or volunteers to mark the OB that is fine with me. Just don't use helping seniors as the excuse.

Please, let us poor little old weak and frail seniors play the course as it would be set up for ANY OTHER PDGA EVENT.

And if this course is in such a condition that no one wants to host PDGA events here, why are you hosting the Senior Games here? All these awesome courses in the Twin Cities and you are making us play Highland?

After all this, I am going to seriously reconsider playing National Senior Games. I may just come to the cities for a few days and play the other courses. And get me into some stickers and mud!
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Old 03-28-2015, 12:43 PM
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Go old dude!

Edit: thrembo is 51 years young.
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