#31  
Old 02-07-2019, 11:53 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by mizunodave View Post
Can you connect the dots a little more for me about how we resist the handle of the whip (the leading shoulder)?

From a standstill I can spin my shoulders open as fast as I can and see that the arm and therefore disc don't go too fast, they're just being dragged along no faster than the shoulders can open.
When I use my core muscles to try to stop my shoulders from opening (approximately in line with the target) my arm and therefore disc snap through must faster. I resisted the handle of the whip and allowed it to snap better.

Just using my core muscles to hold my shoulders closed doesn't really work through a full x-step throw.

As soon as I plant, kinda leaning back and driving all my weight into my plant foot like a skier my shoulders just spin open.

What drill or thought process should I be working on to resist that so the disc can slide into the power pocket and let the elbow snap open and eject the disc?
With anything in form, don't try to force something to happen that isn't happening. If your balance is right, and your sequence is right, it will happen. If your balance isn't right then that's the first thing to fix.

Like as of tonight I'm feeling my shoulders/torso stay way more closed when my arm whips out, just taking swings indoors with something heavy. I'm certainly not telling my body to stop my torso, I'm just in good balance and letting my back leg counterbalance myself more which enables my shoulder to swing out. Then when I go back to my normal/old way...wow it feels slow in comparison.

Being leaned back doesn't help, you just spin freely and early around the plant leg. Got to be in balance on top of the leg, and use your left side and butt to counterbalance your arm opening up.
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  #32  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:17 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Right, and note that all this stuff is more natural on hyzer swing plane with upward trajectory.

Front shoulder should be closed when you start extending the lower arm, and leverage/extend the swing forward from the rear side swimming back behind you and blocking the body forward into the brace. With the Wall Hit Drill your shoulders stay closed because you ain't moving the immoveable wall forward like when pushing a 150-175g disc forward away from your center.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4&t=3m25s


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  #33  
Old 02-08-2019, 01:40 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
I think just speaks to how different if feels when you pull off that Wiggins/Eagle level lateral move. And then, it's just obscene how effortless the disc booms out.
I'm always amazed how Eagle gets his rear side to smash forward without hopping more upright, and crouching into such wide stance although he is so lanky with tiny torso so it's probably much easier for him to move his featherweight mass. Although it does appear like he puts a lot more effort into it than players that appear more effortless with the hop and drop more upright on the front leg.









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  #34  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:54 AM
axion axion is offline
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I wish any of this made sense to me. I would kill to have a backhand like the Jarvis brothers. It looks like their is so little effort involved.
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  #35  
Old 02-10-2019, 02:20 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Some rambling...

Awesome description of basically what happens in the hop and throw from 17-20min in pbs link, total body tendon bounce and piston compression action. You exhale going into the hop, then inhale airborne(I often stick my tongue out a la Jordan) and everything is totally relaxed and free wheeling and falling while airborne and the pelvis is free to pivot back while moving or gliding over the rear leg without breaking stride/slowing down and then you load back forward leveraged into the rear leg/foot resisting collapsing and spring into the plant exhaling and compressing against the ground.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/equus...origins/17063/

It is the rear foot plantar flexion tendon bounce/recoil that throws the rear leg forward after accelerating your center of gravity/pelvis. There is no bounce when you let your posture collapse and are flat footed/dorsiflexed/pushing off the heel and trying to extend the slower rear knee and hip. You need to be resisting the rear leg collapsing posture and spring off the flexed foot. If you try to lean back or are turned back early and load, then you can't spring forward dynamically centered, but you can tip or throw the upper body back over top the front side and leave your weight back on the rear foot.





The front foot plants plantar flexed and then suddenly drops the heel crushing the can and trapping the tendon bounce and ground reaction force transfers that elastic energy up the body and out to the arm/disc instead of the foot perpetuating the hop.









Last edited by sidewinder22; 02-11-2019 at 02:05 PM.
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  #36  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:08 AM
charmees charmees is offline
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Do I understand correctly that the rear foot turns inward because of the brace? So I do not have to actively try to turn hips/knee inwards?

Also any tips to disable disc/hand moving forward before rear foot comes off ground? My disc starts to move due to my front foot landing already, but the rear foot is not yet off the ground.

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  #37  
Old 04-18-2019, 12:14 PM
Mocheez Mocheez is offline
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Originally Posted by charmees View Post
Do I understand correctly that the rear foot turns inward because of the brace? So I do not have to actively try to turn hips/knee inwards?

Also any tips to disable disc/hand moving forward before rear foot comes off ground? My disc starts to move due to my front foot landing already, but the rear foot is not yet off the ground.
I think there should be some active turn of the rear hip/femur but you have to find the right balance so you don't feel any drag from the rear leg or resistance of the upper body.

If you keep your torso turned back and rotate your rear leg/ knee towards the target, it will feel like your rear hip/femur is pushing your torso forward. If you keep your rear hip/femur loose and turn your torso towards the target, you will feel your rear leg dragging behind you.

You want to find the right balance so that the rear leg and torso are working together. It will feel like there is a ball bearing between the torso and rear hip and they are countering in unison.
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  #38  
Old 04-18-2019, 03:55 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charmees View Post
Do I understand correctly that the rear foot turns inward because of the brace? So I do not have to actively try to turn hips/knee inwards?

Also any tips to disable disc/hand moving forward before rear foot comes off ground? My disc starts to move due to my front foot landing already, but the rear foot is not yet off the ground.

The rear foot/heel will roll inward and evert from the weight leaving it as you drive it forward from the ground through the foot. Your rear foot should feel like Swivel Chair Drill when you push your weight forward and weight leaves the foot, then the foot/leg is free to rotate or swivel your pelvis on a braced front leg.



You are striding too staggered around/outside/away from your rear foot, and not landing upright balanced on your front leg - you end up behind it/right of foot like below. Stride straighter inline to target, so your foot is always underneath your head. Kick the Can so your front leg strides slightly inward/right across the rear foot, so you have internal torque through your hips/cocked and athletic for when you land. When you stride outside like you are doing, you undo any torque between the hips, and end with a totally non-athletic movement/stance.


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