#161  
Old 05-28-2021, 08:59 AM
timothy42b timothy42b is offline
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I'm not sure that Paige really does what she says she does.

(And you can look at her video and see pure linear movement, or use her as the best example for Spin&Throw. Hee, hee.)

Have you seen the Josh Donaldson batting video? I can't link on this computer, but there's good slo mo of him stepping slowly then completing the swing.
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  #162  
Old 05-28-2021, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
Taking power out of the equation completely, trying to time the swing and angle control if you're late getting off the backside, will lead to yanking the disc or slipping off early. Once you dial in that the swing happens after the lead heel hits the ground, things get more consistent.
I feel personally attacked! LOL


In all seriousness, I'm following these technique threads closely because a lot of this is resonating with me and my game - and my lack of front-side-postedness (that's a word, I promise). I'm a chronic shoulder-spinning strong armer so I really need to break things down to rebuild from the ground up.

As far as the "timing" goes - let's say, in a simple standstill or one step - if we are rocking the hips back in the backswing, with a pendulum backswing - the disc is swinging upwards to the rear tee side, should the hips be rocking forward into the plant before we're at the top of the backswing? I'm starting to think so, because at least in my experiments, if I'm waiting to rock them forward until the disc is at peak backswing, then I think I'm late off the backside and everything is toast. I assume a 4lb sledge may help answer this question....
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Old 05-28-2021, 11:31 AM
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As always, it depends on the type of standstill you're throwing. Yesterday I went back to "the move" from the ancient youtube video and I did "the move" exactly as he described.



1. back foot setup with a counter-clockwise pressure (big toe off the ground)
2. disc comes back (maintain cc pressure)
3. hips push forward
4. hips initiate opening
5. core intiate opening
6. shoulders
7. extension

This type of standstill had me throwing 55mph without a step, just the golf swing and there was a pronounced ground-up momentum chain that felt connected all the way up.

The clearest issue with "the move" translating to and x-step is that it's impossible for me to feel a way to pre-set the cc pressure with my left foot.

If you go with more strictly momentum / elephant walk I think just try to replicate this:

https://youtu.be/8mIq15Ra3X0?t=522

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Old 05-28-2021, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumberjack504 View Post
I feel personally attacked! LOL


In all seriousness, I'm following these technique threads closely because a lot of this is resonating with me and my game - and my lack of front-side-postedness (that's a word, I promise). I'm a chronic shoulder-spinning strong armer so I really need to break things down to rebuild from the ground up.

As far as the "timing" goes - let's say, in a simple standstill or one step - if we are rocking the hips back in the backswing, with a pendulum backswing - the disc is swinging upwards to the rear tee side, should the hips be rocking forward into the plant before we're at the top of the backswing? I'm starting to think so, because at least in my experiments, if I'm waiting to rock them forward until the disc is at peak backswing, then I think I'm late off the backside and everything is toast. I assume a 4lb sledge may help answer this question....
I know exactly what you are asking but don't know how to answer it. The move is so dynamic that I don't think you want to break it down into individual segments too much. For me, I don't really feel a moment of the 'top' of a backswing. The whole system is moving the entire time in more of a spirally circular 'feeling'. There is no back then forth sensation when it feels good to me.

I have no idea if that will help, but I do know what you mean lol.

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Old 05-28-2021, 01:57 PM
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The backswing usually peaks when the toe touches. The heel then crushes the can and the hips rock forward (this is the most intense and powerful movement in the throw, it's where I divert most of my attention on long throws). So it really does happen in "sequence." Like you mentioned however, you don't want to separate these moves because it's all got to be fluid.

It's really easy to see the sequence in this one:

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Old 05-28-2021, 02:13 PM
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You can see it's full tilt forward (rear hip is higher than front hip–ball is rolling towards the target) in the backswing. The rock forward is what brings you into the power pocket.

The last two frames he maintains the angle as rotation occurs. The rear leg just dangles there as he comes back around towards a balanced finish.

The rotation happens at the very end of the linear shift because the hip no longer has any range to rock forward towards the target.


Last edited by drk_evns; 05-28-2021 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 05-30-2021, 02:16 PM
timothy42b timothy42b is offline
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Re: golf and "the move." I was curious about the relative kinetic energy put into the projectile so I looked it up.

The internet says 158 J for a 46 gram golf ball hit at 82 m/s. Average tour speed is more like 75, and they neglected spin.

For a 175 gram disc thrown at 70 mph, and again neglecting energy in the rotation, a disc ends up with 85.7 J of energy.

We don't use a club so a baseball pitch may be closer, they weigh 150 g and come in at 160 J.

So if we're putting somewhat less energy into a disc than a golfer or pitcher does, maybe a standstill throw is enough. ?
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Old 06-04-2021, 01:37 AM
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Old 06-05-2021, 04:36 AM
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PIVOT TO HIT THE BALL FARTHER, EASIER!

"We all have a love of power and yearn to achieve more of it in the golf swing. Muscular power is the rate of energy expended and it depends on the amount of energy available and the time taken to expend it. This is really about the amount of weight moved and the time involved to move it. Why is this relevant to the golf swing? Simply put, you can and should move in your golf swing. You can and will hit the ball farther with less effort if you pivot properly. This, coupled with good hand action (release) will keep the accuracy you also need. Mike Austin, my teacher and dear friend of 15 years has helped me understand these very things and I am paying it forward, so to speak.

The modern swing seems to be all about rotation---torque, twist, turn, X-factor, etc… these are swing buzzwords that are commonly given as the answer to a powerful swing and thus, increased distance. I believe these things can create substantial power, but done alone, could be creating the possibility for injury. It seems to me that the more that I understand about anatomy, the more I believe that the body is not designed for the this type of rotational activity by itself in the golf swing. However, if some lateral movement is allowed, this alone could put less stress on the back and joints, freeing up the chest and shoulders to turn. By shifting and turning (movement/compound pivot) together, we can create both power and accuracy. Movement, to me, is natural, athletic, and rhythmical…all words we strive for in sport.

I can appreciate the concern about lateral movement in the swing. We have been warned of the dangers of “swaying” during the swing. However, if your swing is a result of a good kinetic chain (the muscle groups in the body working in a series or order of movement, yet “together”) and you utilize a compound pivot, I think you will believe in movement. Additionally, if your swing center (the swing center is a point located in the upper spine around which the upper body rotates and the swing of the arms takes place) stays constant with the least possible movement, you will maintain clubhead speed and centeredness of contact will improve. In order to keep our swing circle center still, we must learn to maintain the exact balanced forward tilt of our spine (until well after the hit is complete) while we allow the lower spine to tilt left and right in the lateral direction. This lateral motion is vital since it shifts the weight from one foot to the other, getting the body weight behind the golf ball on the backswing and allowing us to use our legs and trunk muscles more efficiently.

A good pivot is a compound action… a shift-turn-shift-turn sequence. Many times, it can seem like an expert player is only turning because this pivot sequence is happening in such a small amount of space. Upon closer examination, you will see that the most efficient swings incorporate a two legged balanced start, shifting to a one legged balanced top swing position to a one legged balanced finish position. Basically, you are creating a right side “pole” or axis that will free the left side to turn outward behind the golf ball. (imagine a swinging gate) This not only gives more time for the club to get to the top of the backswing, but also permits a good chest and shoulder turn.

As it is in the backswing, the forward swing is simply a change of axis and weight shift from the right foot to the left foot with a turn through to a balanced finish position. This includes an assertive “drive” or “kick” with your right leg to shift the weight to your left and to get a “running start” at the golf ball, creating optimal clubhead speed. In almost all sports that involve throwing or striking, the athlete makes a “running start” of sorts. Not only does this legwork provide additional club speed in the golf swing, but it also gives you the second benefit of maintaining your balance as your arms swing forward.

There are several ways to “get” this weight transfer ideal. Some like to think of shifting their center of gravity (belly button area) to the right and left and others imagine a lower spine shifting from right to left in a “wrecking ball” or “church bell” type of image. With both of these images, the top of the spine (swing center) remains in a fixed position, acting as a fulcrum for the swing in a pendulum type motion. The head may move some but will not move in such a way that the movement becomes metronome like. In fact, the quieter you can keep your swing center, the better the contact. The hips do not only turn…if you do this, your head will likely sway. If you tilt the hips up and down and then turn, you will have completed this compound pivot and be in an ideal position to throw the club at the ball, around a circle with your hands…a most athletic motion, in my opinion. Throwing sounds and feels better than pulling or pushing….supple quickness, not rigid slowness. To throw, you must move…step and throw.

Students who learn to swing a golf club by learning to pivot first are on their way to an efficient and consistent golf swing. For so many, it is such a relief and their swings (in terms of power and accuracy) improve and their overall enjoyment intensifies. These things, coupled with less strain and pain in the body, have convinced them that this is the way to go. Movement is allowed in the golf swing…learn to pivot and hit the ball like an athlete!

TWO FOOT BALANCE. RIGHT FOOT. LEFT FOOT."

About the Author

Deb Vangellow, LPGA Master Professional, is the Director Of Instruction at Riverbend Country Club in Houston, Texas. She serves as the National President of the LPGA Teaching And Club Professionals and is a longtime lead instructor in the LPGA Global Education Program. She has received numerous teaching honors including being selected the 2012 LPGA National Teacher Of The Year, an LPGA and Golf Digest Woman “Top 50” Teacher, a Golf Digest and GOLF Magazine “Top Regional Teacher”, a US KIDS GOLF “Top 50 Kids Master Teacher”, a GRAA “Elite Top Growth Of The Game Professional”, and Golf For Women Magazine as a “Top 50” teacher. An educator/coach who offers wellness based developmental programming integrated into her “student centered” philosophy.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pivot...en-golf-writer

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  #170  
Old 06-11-2021, 03:29 AM
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