#111  
Old 06-08-2021, 01:58 PM
SuperWookie's Avatar
SuperWookie SuperWookie is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Courses Played: 1
Posts: 314
Niced 49 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waddball View Post
I'm envious of your (mostly) frustration-free life....

I've been doing some field work trying to isolate this, and I can sometimes get to where I believe this "float" is happening. But I can only do it with a very loose overall arm, and with a pendulum backswing. And once I do that, I have downstream problems (upper arm collapse and inconsistent lines, mostly).

I have better results doing the "work around the disc" approach (the Josh Anthon thing, without the Flintstone wackiness), but I can't get the float this way.

I come closest throwing standstill (kind of a half-pendulum). Maybe that will work for you as well, using the weight drop into the plant to create some inertia. Try a partly-bent elbow on the backswing and maybe you'll feel the disc/hand shift a little without any apparent "pull". I think that's the start of what we're looking for here.
Hahaha, well not the most frustrating thing in my life, hahaha. But for sure in sports!
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 06-08-2021, 02:30 PM
RowingBoats's Avatar
RowingBoats RowingBoats is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 264
Niced 211 Times in 113 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
Hahaha, well not the most frustrating thing in my life, hahaha. But for sure in sports!
I get it man, I do haha.

I have nothing new to offer, but something WILL click if you keep at it.

What happens if you stand with no disc, slightly closed stance maybe with rear toe in line with a couple of inches above leading heel...then just play. Don't take steps, just play with rocking back and forth, but with a TOTALLY limp throwing arm. I mean LIMP. And try to make your arm enter the power pocket position, but don't put much into it. Don't send your arm flying hard, just work on making your arm do that without your arm itself forcing the position.

Then just play around more, and figure out what it takes with your weight to make it fly forward harder and harder. But distilling that slowness seems like a key that is so easy to overlook. The swing takes foreeeeeeever before a very fast finish.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 06-10-2021, 02:28 AM
Sad2980 Sad2980 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Alaska
Courses Played: 4
Posts: 26
Niced 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RowingBoats View Post
The swing takes foreeeeeeever before a very fast finish.
I think this is the hardest part for me.

I've noticed that if I stand still and swing my arm as fast as I can without considering disc golf, I can feel the free-floating arm and my form looks significantly better on film. I've attempted the same motion with a disc in my hand with mixed results.

The problem is that I have a hard time slowing the movement down to a controlled motion. At slower speeds, I struggle to get the right timing to feel the free-floating arm moment. My biggest problem is that I start pulling my arm through too soon - even if my legs and hips are moving correctly, the timing is off and they never connect with the motion of my arm.

If I understand it correctly, the free-floating arm moment is caused by the momentum created by planting the lead foot, laterally shifting weight/hips, and then rotating the torso. If timed correctly, this movement pulls the arm into the power pocket and with enough momentum the arm is swung forward towards the target. The arm doesn't do anything to move the disc - it's just there to hold the disc, guide it on the correct plane, and maybe add some muscle near the end.

Am I on the right track? If so, how do you guys achieve the right timing from the top of your reach back/how did you learn the right timing?
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 06-10-2021, 03:25 AM
EllEstar EllEstar is offline
Bogey Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 77
Niced 75 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad2980 View Post
If I understand it correctly, the free-floating arm moment is caused by the momentum created by planting the lead foot, laterally shifting weight/hips, and then rotating the torso. If timed correctly, this movement pulls the arm into the power pocket and with enough momentum the arm is swung forward towards the target. The arm doesn't do anything to move the disc - it's just there to hold the disc, guide it on the correct plane, and maybe add some muscle near the end.
Not so much the rotating, at least that feels more like a by-product than a major contributing factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad2980 View Post
Am I on the right track? If so, how do you guys achieve the right timing from the top of your reach back/how did you learn the right timing?
Lots and lots of reps, filming myself a lot, drills and partial throws. Trying to slow my throw down past the point where I can throw never did much for me aside from making sure I was swinging on the right plane or some such.

Also try using a metronome or a beat of some sorts to follow.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:17 AM
crd 81's Avatar
crd 81 crd 81 is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Courses Played: 47
Posts: 910
Niced 159 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllEstar View Post
Not so much the rotating, at least that feels more like a by-product than a major contributing factor.



Lots and lots of reps, filming myself a lot, drills and partial throws. Trying to slow my throw down past the point where I can throw never did much for me aside from making sure I was swinging on the right plane or some such.

Also try using a metronome or a beat of some sorts to follow.
Maybe it's just me, but two drills seem to keep coming up when I read through threads: one leg drill and elephant walk with hammer. Seems like between those two drills a lot can be covered.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 06-10-2021, 12:29 PM
RowingBoats's Avatar
RowingBoats RowingBoats is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 264
Niced 211 Times in 113 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad2980 View Post
I think this is the hardest part for me.

I've noticed that if I stand still and swing my arm as fast as I can without considering disc golf, I can feel the free-floating arm and my form looks significantly better on film. I've attempted the same motion with a disc in my hand with mixed results.

The problem is that I have a hard time slowing the movement down to a controlled motion. At slower speeds, I struggle to get the right timing to feel the free-floating arm moment. My biggest problem is that I start pulling my arm through too soon - even if my legs and hips are moving correctly, the timing is off and they never connect with the motion of my arm.

If I understand it correctly, the free-floating arm moment is caused by the momentum created by planting the lead foot, laterally shifting weight/hips, and then rotating the torso. If timed correctly, this movement pulls the arm into the power pocket and with enough momentum the arm is swung forward towards the target. The arm doesn't do anything to move the disc - it's just there to hold the disc, guide it on the correct plane, and maybe add some muscle near the end.

Am I on the right track? If so, how do you guys achieve the right timing from the top of your reach back/how did you learn the right timing?
If you had to take a heavy trash bag and throw it over a wall that was 7 feet tall, you would probably do the thing you are trying to do. The basic move that leads to actually throwing a disc is so, so simple, I promise. You are on the right track, but I really wouldn't get complex about the way you think about it, simplifying it will help you way more.

Don't think of this as a series of poses that you have to make, with a certain tempo that you have to force...it is nothing like that at all.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 06-10-2021, 07:41 PM
azplaya25's Avatar
azplaya25 azplaya25 is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Years Playing: 11.8
Courses Played: 6
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,071
Niced 936 Times in 480 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad2980 View Post
I think this is the hardest part for me.

I've noticed that if I stand still and swing my arm as fast as I can without considering disc golf, I can feel the free-floating arm and my form looks significantly better on film. I've attempted the same motion with a disc in my hand with mixed results.

The problem is that I have a hard time slowing the movement down to a controlled motion. At slower speeds, I struggle to get the right timing to feel the free-floating arm moment. My biggest problem is that I start pulling my arm through too soon - even if my legs and hips are moving correctly, the timing is off and they never connect with the motion of my arm.

If I understand it correctly, the free-floating arm moment is caused by the momentum created by planting the lead foot, laterally shifting weight/hips, and then rotating the torso. If timed correctly, this movement pulls the arm into the power pocket and with enough momentum the arm is swung forward towards the target. The arm doesn't do anything to move the disc - it's just there to hold the disc, guide it on the correct plane, and maybe add some muscle near the end.

Am I on the right track? If so, how do you guys achieve the right timing from the top of your reach back/how did you learn the right timing?
Start small, and by small I mean putting. Try putting without using your arm at all. Just using your body to swing your arm to the basket. It takes patience. I’ve been trying to fix my strong arming habits for over a year. What doesn’t work is going out and trying to throw as far and as hard and fast as you can. Gotta start small and use slow, controlled motions
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 06-10-2021, 10:24 PM
RFrance RFrance is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Tampa, FL
Years Playing: 7.9
Courses Played: 29
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,382
Niced 749 Times in 428 Posts
Default

I was watching Dan Martin swing and at the 1:10 mark it struck me, the lower arm is the golf club.



You can see it in SW22's gif, too.


Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 06-10-2021, 10:38 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 15
Courses Played: 245
Posts: 18,413
Niced 5,612 Times in 3,314 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFrance View Post
I was watching Dan Martin swing and at the 1:10 mark it struck me, the lower arm is the golf club.

You can see it in SW22's gif, too.
Lower arm is the bat:

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
 

  #120  
Old 06-11-2021, 12:00 AM
SocraDeez's Avatar
SocraDeez SocraDeez is offline
Bogey Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Michigan
Years Playing: 3.1
Courses Played: 116
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 58
Niced 144 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
Can you expound upon this idea more please, in different terminology, maybe some different examples? What exactly do you and others mean when you say "CLEAR THE HIPS".
Sure, man, I'll try using some different words. First lesson: when the universe farted you out as a homo sapien sapien with a big beautiful brain, it had already been in the bipedal business for a few million years (remember, Australopithecus?). Bipedalism began developing long before tool use or the large homo sapien sapien brain, and hominins have become more bipedal(!) over time. Bipedalism has lots of advantages (and, of course, some disadvantages), but a super important one is that it might be the most efficient way to locomote a meatsack (like you or I) through space-time. We'll let Zeno's Paradoxes of Motion rest for now.

This is all to say, you were made to walk & run on two feet.

Running (or, dare I say, speed-walking)* was probably the first sport. Here's a grand claim - all athletic motions are derived from movement patterns found in walking/running. Even dart throwing! (What about standstill jumping, you say? Yeah you're right; maybe I didn't think this grand claim quite all the way through.)

*


Don't forget this. Seriously. It's very easy to forget. I bet you've even forgotten how you walk. I'm not saying that you cannot walk; I am saying that you have forgotten how you do it. We all forget this at some point along the March of Progress.* An early hominin would be very jealous of your walking form even if they would not be very impressed by your disc golf form.

*


Be still, friend; the long wind is almost past. The most fundamental, or primal, meaning of "CLEAR THE HIPS" is the motion that your hips perform when you walk/run. Step forward with your right foot & pause; your left hip is now maximally rotated all the way to the left side of the system away from the right leg/foot that is pushing or bracing against the ground; can you feel it?* This is the top of the backswing hip position.

*You should be able to even feel the hip torque in the left Lat. when doing this.

Step forward with your left foot & pause; your right hip is now maximally rotated all the way to the right side of the system away from the left leg/foot that is pushing or bracing against the ground; can you feel it? This is the top of the forward swing hip position.

Now, when a hip is said to "clear", it is meant that the hip moves around the femur/leg to or from the maximally rotated position just as it does when you walk forward. When you step forward with your right foot, the left hip clears the left femur/leg once moving to its maximally rotated left position, and then, when you continue the forward gait by also stepping forward with the left foot, the left hip clears the left femur/leg again but by moving to the right side. The opposite hip would be doing the same (but inverse in relation to your COG).

So then, here is a different-than-disc-golf example of what is meant by "CLEAR THE HIPS". This is not a super-secret-double-dog-dare technique to throwing putters 450+ post. This is a post meant to emphasize the larger context of the disc golf throw, which I strongly believe to be practically important if you are a person like me who has forgotten how he walks but strongly wants to improve his disc golf throw.

In the immortal words of Mike Austin, "You walk in your swing!"

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Just floating this out there. David Zoller Discs 9 12-21-2016 05:53 PM
Side arm disc for a noodle arm. JohnEmery Discs 22 07-31-2013 05:17 PM
Predominent arm to Non-Predominet arm DAN E. General Disc Golf Chat 7 09-30-2011 12:00 PM
Bent arm versus Straight arm Throws Donald Smith Technique & Strategy 31 01-21-2010 10:26 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.