#71  
Old 08-07-2019, 11:18 PM
Cgkdisc's Avatar
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Twin Cities
Years Playing: 30.9
Courses Played: 692
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 12,350
Niced 1,737 Times in 795 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Well, you can do all sorts of things with X-tier permission.

If you can get it.
Pretty much anything goes to easily get X-tier approval. It's whether the format would produce ratings is usually the question. My proposed format is normal medal play under PDGA rules so no problem producing ratings. Ams are not getting paid cash and pros are. The only restriction is age and we have Master and older player Majors already.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 08-08-2019, 01:45 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Years Playing: 8.8
Courses Played: 19
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,499
Niced 1,058 Times in 621 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
We do.

The guy rated 800 aspires to be the world champion, the best in the world, of......what?
The 800 guy is having a blast hanging out with guys his own age, playing a sport he loves. He knows he is never going to be the best in the world or beat the higher rated guys. Now, all of a sudden...tell him he has a chance to be the best in a group of similar rated players, that are STILL in his same age group, he's not only having fun, but he's thinking, maybe for the 1st time in his career he has a chance to place much higher. This gives the player a new found excitement, I don't see how you don't think this a good thing for ams to experience.

Now the old dude rated 900-940+, sure those guys are in it to win it and truly aspire to be the best locally, regionally, in the world, etc. With the proposal I am making, nothing will change for that player...at all.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 08-08-2019, 07:30 AM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 24.6
Courses Played: 125
Posts: 15,294
Niced 3,633 Times in 1,570 Posts
Default

Not in a world championship. That's not a championship of anything, just a win among peers. Note that the 800 rated younger guy doesn't get that chance, either---there's no world championship for him. He can play AmWorlds in a division where he has no chance of winning, but have fun and try to beat as many people as he can.

Should disc golf grow thirtyfold so that there are tournaments for specific divisions---an Intermediate tournament, an MP50 tournament, and so on---that are filling, so enough players, the PDGA can revisit splitting divisions for regular tournaments.

I'll sidenote that I have firsthand experience. I'm 60; no tournaments this year so I've never played older than the MA50 division. My rating has crashed, currently 854 but that's only bolstered by some old rounds; I'm playing about 830 golf these days. So you're talking about people like me.

As demonstrated earlier, this was tried about a decade ago, in both regular tournaments and some "championships", and wasn't popular. I don't see it working any better today. At some point, people like me have to face the fact: I can play among people I can beat, or I can play with my age group, but I'm not entitled to demand both.

Niced: (3)
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 08-08-2019, 09:26 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Years Playing: 8.8
Courses Played: 19
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,499
Niced 1,058 Times in 621 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Not in a world championship. That's not a championship of anything, just a win among peers.
Why not, all of the other divisions are based on ratings. But my main interest is not worlds, I will concede to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
...I'm 60; no tournaments this year..
With all due respect, I'm not talking about players who only play a few tournaments a year. My first hand experience with the am grandmaster division (over 100 tournaments) has lead me to this conclusion based on player feedback. The only time I ever hear anything remotely negative about this proposal is once in a while someone says "nah, I don't want the field to be smaller and affect payouts."

But..the conversation has run it's course, thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 08-08-2019, 10:53 AM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 24.6
Courses Played: 125
Posts: 15,294
Niced 3,633 Times in 1,570 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Why not, all of the other divisions are based on ratings. But my main interest is not worlds, I will concede to that.
And I will concede that outside of Worlds, it's just an issue of having enough players. I was originally quoted from a comment I made specifically about worlds.

Perhaps some of the mega tournaments (Bowling Green, etc.) have fields large enough that the age-protected divisions could be further subdivided by rating, providing the opportunity you seek and enough players in each subdivision to be worthwhile. As might some of the Masters-only events.

(P.S. I used to play a lot more tournaments; I've played at least 50 in age-protected divisions, myself. It's just the last 2 or 3 years I haven't, which is why I have old rounds still in my ratings).

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 08-08-2019, 04:41 PM
JTacoma03's Avatar
JTacoma03 JTacoma03 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, LA and SF, CA
Years Playing: 10.9
Courses Played: 133
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 4,297
Niced 1,403 Times in 423 Posts
Default

I'm just wondering when the definitions of "competition" and "tournament" got watered down to mean "everybody gets to play with who they want, and only compete against people they deem fair to compete against"

The thing is - I don't begrudge anybody choosing their preferred card for a casual round, or a tag round with bets, or hell even a PDGA League (since divisions are mostly pointless there anyway). However the participation trophy mentality around disc golf TOURNAMENTS is really silly. Ams expect to get more than they paid in, people are unhappy if they're not the favorite to win a 4-person division, etc.

Rather than constantly trying to re-define a word that people understand globally, maybe some golfers should ask themselves if tournament competition is really for them? There's so many more avenues to compete at the level of seriousness that you desire, maybe a PDGA sanctioned event isn't the right place if you need so many accommodations...

Niced: (3)
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 08-08-2019, 05:09 PM
`cjc's Avatar
`cjc `cjc is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Years Playing: 11.6
Courses Played: 15
Posts: 530
Niced 7 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
I'm just wondering when the definitions of "competition" and "tournament" got watered down to mean "everybody gets to play with who they want, and only compete against people they deem fair to compete against"

The thing is - I don't begrudge anybody choosing their preferred card for a casual round, or a tag round with bets, or hell even a PDGA League (since divisions are mostly pointless there anyway). However the participation trophy mentality around disc golf TOURNAMENTS is really silly. Ams expect to get more than they paid in, people are unhappy if they're not the favorite to win a 4-person division, etc.

Rather than constantly trying to re-define a word that people understand globally, maybe some golfers should ask themselves if tournament competition is really for them? There's so many more avenues to compete at the level of seriousness that you desire, maybe a PDGA sanctioned event isn't the right place if you need so many accommodations...
Absolutely. Your post sums up my frustration with disc golf tournaments and the PDGA in generally.

My suggestion: Men, Women, Am Men, Am women.

Plus the age restricted masters at 50 years old.

But,

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 08-08-2019, 05:47 PM
Jay Dub's Avatar
Jay Dub Jay Dub is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SW Ohio
Years Playing: 39.9
Courses Played: 95
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 5,013
Niced 1,102 Times in 420 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to Jay Dub
Default

Winning AMs is like winning the NIT in college basketball. The team gets to go around with their chest puffed out yelling.."We're #65, We're #65"!!


Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 08-08-2019, 06:04 PM
Putt for D'oh's Avatar
Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Years Playing: 4.8
Courses Played: 24
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,182
Niced 525 Times in 300 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Dub View Post
Winning AMs is like winning the NIT in college basketball. The team gets to go around with their chest puffed out yelling.."We're #65, We're #65"!!

#70 this year with the play-in games.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
 

  #80  
Old 08-08-2019, 06:27 PM
Cgkdisc's Avatar
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Twin Cities
Years Playing: 30.9
Courses Played: 692
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 12,350
Niced 1,737 Times in 795 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Dub View Post
Winning AMs is like winning the NIT in college basketball. The team gets to go around with their chest puffed out yelling.."We're #65, We're #65"!!

Winning NCAA March Madness is not really much better than the NIT because #1 in College B-Ball is like winning MA1 versus the NBA title. And winning the NIT is more like MA2. Should we ignore winners of Division 2 and 3 B-ball titles? Is winning a High School State championship like winning MA3 or MA4 in an A-tier?

While winning something called the World Title in any sport should probably be reserved for only the top open pro level, and really have competitors from around the world, not primarily the U.S., there's certainly a place for other kinds of championships that bring together the best in some category however you slice it whether by age, gender, country, Pro/Am (suspect), league level and even ratings.

Winning a competition for the Red level title, and repeating, is more of an accomplishment than most of the other slices because everyone in that competition is verified to be at your skill level that year, presuming no one below red level is allowed to enter that division. And if limited to age 40+, there are likely few if any phenoms quickly rocketing up the skill ladder on their way to white, blue and beyond. And fully agree there's no need to call it a World title, just a Championship moniker of some sort.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Naming a course Martin Dewgarita Disc Golf Courses 36 09-06-2017 11:20 AM
Naming your discs? Tiny Discs 39 11-26-2012 10:40 PM
disc naming. disc gopher Discs 34 02-16-2011 03:17 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.