#31  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:13 PM
curmudgeonDwindle curmudgeonDwindle is offline
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The basic answer to this question is the facility must provide value to its customers, and while many eschew the comparisons to the other golf, you can quickly see how private country clubs provide such value to attract and retain members. Their model is roughly followed by public facilities.

Most private clubs offer an entire sporting/gaming culture to members, with many activities and social events which encourage 'multi-level' integrated participation - they're selling a 'lifestyle' if you will (up to the inclusion of luxury housing adjoining the property). In addition, easy business networking is an unstated perk of membership. Plus, it's all under one roof, so to speak.

My first suggestion would be for more research on the OP's part, and then adapt some ideas which seem feasible for your situation. My second would be more direct and in-depth market research with your proposed targets.

For those of more modest means, the PCC is proving a more difficult model to sustain but learning to benefit from their experience might be a terrific time-saver.
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  #32  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:40 PM
curmudgeonDwindle curmudgeonDwindle is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
I doubt any course could bring in enough money to pay full-time staff and pay for the land and structure costs and still show a profit. In part because, if a course is close enough to enough population to bring in enough revenue, land is going to be quite expensive.
This is a salient point - most private country clubs are non or not-for profit corporations, granted some are adapting to a daily fee model. They exist at the behest of the members (or owners), because they're willing to pay for such a luxury. While they provide a large number of jobs and multiple income streams for many people, the idea is to NOT make any profit, which is roughly analogous to public facilities. This 'no profit' way dovetails with the social environment created at a club, with tie-ins to community charity groups like Junior League and the like.

There just isn't the same pressure that might come from a group of stockholders requiring a ROI (more likely the pressure will come from the greens and grounds committee demanding you fix the crappy greens). The structure of your enterprise partially determines how you manage it.
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  #33  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:49 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by elmexdela View Post
honest question..

what happened to flyboy? I always wanted to play it but during my hiatus from dgcr i must have missed what happened. do you have a brief summary?
A combination of several factors. This story should be about 90% accurate; I'm sure some Which, of course, takes a lot more of his limited time.

It's hard to describe Flyboy, because it has an ambiance unlike anywhere else. On top of people know the inside scoop a little better than I do.

To begin with, you have to understand where Flyboy is: on the common land in a fly-in community. In other words, it's a rather exclusive neighborhood, and a balancing act to keep the homeowners happy with allowing it. Installed and maintained by the nicest person in disc golf---but also a very busy one.

It zoomed to #1 on this site, which created a lot of demand to play. Not every player could respect the rules, like stay out of this yard, or get off the runways when planes are landing, etc. They had a collegiate tournament there, and you can imagine that not all of the college kids were faithful to the rules.

So the compromise between Kelly and the neighborhood was that people could play if Kelly was with them---or perhaps one of two other guides. But Kelly's time is limited, and there was still a lot of demand. More than he could meet.

So he de-listed it.

The course is still there. Everyone once in a while, word gets through a grapevine and it's open to a group with inside connections; or arrangements are made for an out-of-towner. But Kelly has much higher standards than I do; he will only open it if it's in tip-top shape. Which, of course means more of Kelly's limited time.

It's hard to describe Flyboy. The ambiance is like nowhere else. On top of 36 good-to-great holes in a gorgeous setting. The first time I went there, I made the drive thinking, "This is going to be a disappointment because it can't possibly live up to the hype I've heard." Then spent the weekend dazzled.

Well, that's not a very brief summary. It's not so much extinct, as just under-the-radar now.

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  #34  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:52 PM
elmexdela elmexdela is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
A combination of several factors. This story should be about 90% accurate; I'm sure some Which, of course, takes a lot more of his limited time.

It's hard to describe Flyboy, because it has an ambiance unlike anywhere else. On top of people know the inside scoop a little better than I do.

To begin with, you have to understand where Flyboy is: on the common land in a fly-in community. In other words, it's a rather exclusive neighborhood, and a balancing act to keep the homeowners happy with allowing it. Installed and maintained by the nicest person in disc golf---but also a very busy one.

It zoomed to #1 on this site, which created a lot of demand to play. Not every player could respect the rules, like stay out of this yard, or get off the runways when planes are landing, etc. They had a collegiate tournament there, and you can imagine that not all of the college kids were faithful to the rules.

So the compromise between Kelly and the neighborhood was that people could play if Kelly was with them---or perhaps one of two other guides. But Kelly's time is limited, and there was still a lot of demand. More than he could meet.

So he de-listed it.

The course is still there. Everyone once in a while, word gets through a grapevine and it's open to a group with inside connections; or arrangements are made for an out-of-towner. But Kelly has much higher standards than I do; he will only open it if it's in tip-top shape. Which, of course means more of Kelly's limited time.

It's hard to describe Flyboy. The ambiance is like nowhere else. On top of 36 good-to-great holes in a gorgeous setting. The first time I went there, I made the drive thinking, "This is going to be a disappointment because it can't possibly live up to the hype I've heard." Then spent the weekend dazzled.

Well, that's not a very brief summary. It's not so much extinct, as just under-the-radar now.
I still read everything! thank you
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  #35  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:54 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by curmudgeonDwindle View Post
The basic answer to this question is the facility must provide value to its customers, and while many eschew the comparisons to the other golf, you can quickly see how private country clubs provide such value to attract and retain members. Their model is roughly followed by public facilities.

Most private clubs offer an entire sporting/gaming culture to members, with many activities and social events which encourage 'multi-level' integrated participation - they're selling a 'lifestyle' if you will (up to the inclusion of luxury housing adjoining the property). In addition, easy business networking is an unstated perk of membership. Plus, it's all under one roof, so to speak.

My first suggestion would be for more research on the OP's part, and then adapt some ideas which seem feasible for your situation. My second would be more direct and in-depth market research with your proposed targets.

For those of more modest means, the PCC is proving a more difficult model to sustain but learning to benefit from their experience might be a terrific time-saver.
Though a few folks have dreamed of a Disc Golf Country Club, I think the model others hope to follow is less like golf, and more like other activities---a pay-to-play athletic venue. Of course, lacking the social benefits you describe, it won't command nearly the money.
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  #36  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:55 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Somehow some sentences got scrambled and put in the wrong paragraphs there. Possibly user error on my part. Darned edit window.

The first paragraph is supposed to say that I'm sure someone knows the story a little better than I do.
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  #37  
Old 12-14-2017, 10:13 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Somehow some sentences got scrambled and put in the wrong paragraphs there. Possibly user error on my part. Darned edit window.

The first paragraph is supposed to say that I'm sure someone knows the story a little better than I do.
Editing errors and all, your summary gets the point across well.
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  #38  
Old 12-14-2017, 10:52 PM
puttlikeablowfly puttlikeablowfly is offline
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Originally Posted by UP Mountain Man View Post
Regarding Madison PTP, I do understand that there are downsides too, and that the exclusion does affect the players that the future needs the most. I know if I ever do go PTP on my course, women and juniors will play for free.
Kids play for free (no permit required) at the City of Madison and Dane County courses. I believe it is age 15 and under for both, although one may be 16 and under.

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  #39  
Old 12-15-2017, 07:23 AM
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Editing errors and all, your summary gets the point across well.
Thanks. I'd had 2 hours sleep in the previous 40 hours, and somehow managed to cut some sentences and paste them randomly, elsewhere. I'd correct it, but it's a thread drift---Flyboy was and is, by no means, and effort to make a P2P course economically viable. It is a successful private course, by other measures, but that's for another thread, not this one.
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  #40  
Old 12-15-2017, 08:57 AM
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I really think kids under the age of about 14 - 16 play free actually makes sense for P2P courses, particularly those that have a tough time generating the volume needed to cover costs.

I can see how a guy on a tight budget might be hesitant to go to a course with his kids if he's gotta pay for all of them... might go to the free course instead. This also helps grow their future customer base.
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