#3461  
Old 11-18-2020, 10:14 AM
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JedV JedV is offline
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
The risk has nothing to do with you! Man, I don't really understand why people struggle with this.

You are welcome to make decisions on your own mortality. The problem is that the risk you undertake, is not only your own. Your survival needs, of going to the bar, gym, church, bowling alley....are then exponentially passed on to scores of high risk people. The danger of this virus has been asymptomatic carriers, exposing the elderly and high risk population. Even for the those trying to claim, I go to the gym and only see my cousin, other then that. Cousin Jim sees his family. Jim's wife works at Walmart.....

Nobody should be going to indoor activities, with other people, not wearing masks, for extended periods of time. Not because it is dangerous for them....because it is dangerous for the thousands of people they can infect.
Yeah, but... My freedoms!
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  #3462  
Old 11-18-2020, 10:15 AM
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Well....I wish I was a badass, like you. I AM scared. I am scared of bringing this virus home to my wife, my mother, my father in law. I am afraid they then could spread the virus to dozens of others, who each could spread it to dozens of others........

I am afraid of watching a generation, a generation that fought and died for the freedoms we are discussing, die.

Guess I am just a p*ssy.
I'm also a p*ssy.
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  #3463  
Old 11-18-2020, 10:20 AM
jakebake91 jakebake91 is online now
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I'm also a p*ssy.
Never understood that statement......those things can take a pounding! It's the male anatomy that's weak and vulnerable.....

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  #3464  
Old 11-18-2020, 11:00 AM
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Monocacy Monocacy is online now
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Originally Posted by JRW III View Post
There is a real good discussion in this link about Focused Protection (link). Aim the protections to those most at risk. The strict protocols and bans on low risk individuals can end up being more harmful in the end than COVID would be.
Ah, the Great Barrington Declaration. What it describes as a "focused protection" approach is really a herd immunity strategy. Which makes no sense when we are on the verge of not one but two vaccines that look highly effective, based on preliminary data.

Sample critique of the Great Barrington Declaration:
Dr Rupert Beale, Group Leader, Cell Biology of Infection Laboratory, Francis Crick Institute, said:

“An effective response to the Covid pandemic requires multiple targeted interventions to reduce transmission, to develop better treatments and to protect vulnerable people. This declaration prioritises just one aspect of a sensible strategy – protecting the vulnerable – and suggests we can safely build up ‘herd immunity’ in the rest of the population. This is wishful thinking. It is not possible to fully identify vulnerable individuals, and it is not possible to fully isolate them. Furthermore, we know that immunity to coronaviruses wanes over time, and re-infection is possible – so lasting protection of vulnerable individuals by establishing ‘herd immunity’ is very unlikely to be achieved in the absence of a vaccine. Individual scientists may reasonably disagree about the relative merits of various interventions, but they must be honest about the feasibility of what they propose. This declaration is therefore not a helpful contribution to the debate.”

Furthermore, protecting nursing homes is easier said than done:
“We learned from the first wave, but it was not enough,” said Dominique Lamy, the coordinating doctor for three nursing homes in Mons, in southwestern Belgium.

“During summer, we prepared all the material, all the protocols, all the procedures,” Lamy said. But the government underestimated how rapidly a resurgence of the virus among younger people would make its way into homes for the elderly, he said.

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  #3465  
Old 11-18-2020, 11:13 AM
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ru4por ru4por is offline
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Originally Posted by Monocacy View Post
Ah, the Great Barrington Declaration. What it describes as a "focused protection" approach is really a herd immunity strategy. Which makes no sense when we are on the verge of not one but two vaccines that look highly effective, based on preliminary data.

Sample critique of the Great Barrington Declaration:
Dr Rupert Beale, Group Leader, Cell Biology of Infection Laboratory, Francis Crick Institute, said:

“An effective response to the Covid pandemic requires multiple targeted interventions to reduce transmission, to develop better treatments and to protect vulnerable people. This declaration prioritises just one aspect of a sensible strategy – protecting the vulnerable – and suggests we can safely build up ‘herd immunity’ in the rest of the population. This is wishful thinking. It is not possible to fully identify vulnerable individuals, and it is not possible to fully isolate them. Furthermore, we know that immunity to coronaviruses wanes over time, and re-infection is possible – so lasting protection of vulnerable individuals by establishing ‘herd immunity’ is very unlikely to be achieved in the absence of a vaccine. Individual scientists may reasonably disagree about the relative merits of various interventions, but they must be honest about the feasibility of what they propose. This declaration is therefore not a helpful contribution to the debate.”

Furthermore, protecting nursing homes is easier said than done:
“We learned from the first wave, but it was not enough,” said Dominique Lamy, the coordinating doctor for three nursing homes in Mons, in southwestern Belgium.

“During summer, we prepared all the material, all the protocols, all the procedures,” Lamy said. But the government underestimated how rapidly a resurgence of the virus among younger people would make its way into homes for the elderly, he said.
Good post. I think it could easily be argued that shutting down business is indeed focused protection. Asymptomatic spread to high risk groups has become the hallmark of this virus.

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  #3466  
Old 11-18-2020, 11:31 AM
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McCready McCready is offline
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Originally Posted by Hampstead View Post
I've definitely downgraded a few friendships because of this. The guys who think this is a 5G Bill Gates virus and say they'll start shooting if someone tries to give them a vaccine definitely have different values than I and it's best if we just go separate ways.
Unfortunately my stepdad is in this category for me now. Someone I’ve always deeply respected, now fully immersed in the Trump cult and lost complete touch with reality. Really sad to watch.

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  #3467  
Old 11-18-2020, 11:34 AM
jakebake91 jakebake91 is online now
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Unfortunately my stepdad is in this category for me now. Someone I’ve always deeply respected, now fully immersed in the Trump cult and lost complete touch with reality. Really sad to watch.
Not to derail this into a political thread, because this isn't the place for that but....

Is it pro-trump or anti-democrat? I have found those two things are much different, but often with the same result.
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  #3468  
Old 11-18-2020, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jakebake91 View Post
Not to derail this into a political thread, because this isn't the place for that but....

Is it pro-trump or anti-democrat? I have found those two things are much different, but often with the same result.
Pro-Trump in his case. I never realized how much of a racist he is. Most of his friends are current or retired cops. Since Trump was elected, he no longer feels the need to hide his bigotry.
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  #3469  
Old 11-18-2020, 11:48 AM
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Pro-Trump in his case. I never realized how much of a racist he is. Most of his friends are current or retired cops. Since Trump was elected, he no longer feels the need to hide his bigotry.
Oddly, I find my republican friends often confuse my anti-trump stance, for pro-democratic.

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  #3470  
Old 11-18-2020, 12:00 PM
Discraft Dad Discraft Dad is offline
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
Well....I wish I was a badass, like you. I AM scared. I am scared of bringing this virus home to my wife, my mother, my father in law. I am afraid they then could spread the virus to dozens of others, who each could spread it to dozens of others........

I am afraid of watching a generation, a generation that fought and died for the freedoms we are discussing, die.

Guess I am just a p*ssy.
I am just going to say this without going into much detail. When you have the life experiences that I have had and found myself in some tight spots I wasn't sure I would make it out of, it is going to take more than a virus with a 97%+ chance if surviving to make me nervous. Especially with a vaccine on the horizon.

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