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View Poll Results: McBeth vs. Climo
McBeth 143 64.13%
Climo 80 35.87%
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  #91  
Old 04-15-2019, 03:14 PM
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ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is offline
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
IMO Paul is the best player of all time when at the top of his game but Kenny is still the greatest player of all time. This could change and YMMV.
Second reply. Best reply.

Paul McBeth might be the best disc golfer of all time, but the difference between Paul and the field right now just isn't as big as the difference between Climo and his fields. Speaking in terms of actual discrete skills - watching video its clear that Climo didn't develop the ability that Paul has, even if that was only because his field didn't push him to do it. When Paul came on the scene he seemed to have an innate natural skill that none of the other youngsters had, he's a once-a-generation guy in terms of his focus and the work put in, but he's already been surpassed/matched as an athlete by a lot of other top guys. The next GREATEST OF ALL TIME to come around, the guy who pushes Climo to 1B on Rushmore, will be someone who grows up with the game, develops a true single-minded focus on the game like Climo/McBeth, as well as with the sort of elite athletic ability that makes for a pro athlete in sports like basketball, football, or soccer.

I like to say that Climo is like our Old Tom Morris. Our first recognizable dominant champion - winning them all. I thought for a moment that Ricky/Paul/Will would be the equivalent to our Great Triumvirate - the threesome that took the next era in golf. Three guys on a whole new level, paving the way for the future. Maybe one of the new kids will be the Ben Hogan of disc golf someday. One thing's for sure - disc golf hasn't even had a Jack Nicklaus, much less a Tiger Woods.
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  #92  
Old 04-15-2019, 03:16 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
I call foul on calling that jumping over a car. He jumped over the corner of the trunk. He was barely over the car at all.
The bigger question becomes, would jumping over the entire car equal break dancing with a beer in your hand? And by jumping over a car are we talking door to door, or trunk to hood?

Right now it feels like Kenny has the lead.

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  #93  
Old 04-15-2019, 03:19 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisWoj View Post
Second reply. Best reply.

Paul McBeth might be the best disc golfer of all time, but the difference between Paul and the field right now just isn't as big as the difference between Climo and his fields. Speaking in terms of actual discrete skills - watching video its clear that Climo didn't develop the ability that Paul has, even if that was only because his field didn't push him to do it. When Paul came on the scene he seemed to have an innate natural skill that none of the other youngsters had, he's a once-a-generation guy in terms of his focus and the work put in, but he's already been surpassed/matched as an athlete by a lot of other top guys. The next GREATEST OF ALL TIME to come around, the guy who pushes Climo to 1B on Rushmore, will be someone who grows up with the game, develops a true single-minded focus on the game like Climo/McBeth, as well as with the sort of elite athletic ability that makes for a pro athlete in sports like basketball, football, or soccer.

I like to say that Climo is like our Old Tom Morris. Our first recognizable dominant champion - winning them all. I thought for a moment that Ricky/Paul/Will would be the equivalent to our Great Triumvirate - the threesome that took the next era in golf. Three guys on a whole new level, paving the way for the future. Maybe one of the new kids will be the Ben Hogan of disc golf someday. One thing's for sure - disc golf hasn't even had a Jack Nicklaus, much less a Tiger Woods.
Do you feel like we haven't had a Jack or Tiger because neither Paul or Kenny had the depth of talent around them? Just want some perspective. Interesting thinking.
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  #94  
Old 04-15-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
Do you feel like we haven't had a Jack or Tiger because neither Paul or Kenny had the depth of talent around them? Just want some perspective. Interesting thinking.
I look at it as a combination of depth of talent as well as the general size of the sport in terms of wealth/player earnings. Player earnings matter to me because their earnings facilitate their travel. We're just getting to the point where more than just the very top guys can travel overseas regularly - thanks to either money sponsors can afford to spend or the players can earn and spend on their own travel. This lines up more with the early 1900s in golf than the eras of Jack or Tiger. Player mobility plays a huge role in getting the best of the best the chance to compete with each other every week. This lack of money coming in also pushes guys who could be all timers off of the sport. Where would Wiggins and Stenfelt sit if they had spent the 2010s touring around the world (Stenfelt was in the 990s at 13 years old, I believe... and I assume we all remember that Wiggins was the younger and better talent than Wysocki as a golfer, not just a distance thrower)?

With the growth of the sport - I do think we're pushing through these barriers quicker than golf did. I think that we're starting to arrive, very quickly, at the state golf was in in the 1960s as Nicklaus was showing up. Look at the results of his Major wins and you see as they go on the increase in international players in the top 10 rising quickly into the 1970s in US events, where they're already showing a broad diaspora of finishers at The Open in Britain.

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  #95  
Old 04-15-2019, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
If Disc Golf were basketball today, it would be about 1929.
Considering true pro basketball didn't really catch on until the late 1930s, I'd put that date a little later. Maybe 1949.

And then the GOAT would obviously be Mikan.

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  #96  
Old 04-15-2019, 04:59 PM
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Considering true pro basketball didn't really catch on until the late 1930s, I'd put that date a little later. Maybe 1949.

And then the GOAT would obviously be Mikan.
1949 is a pretty important year to choose - the year the NBL officially folded into the BAA and the league changed its name to the NBA. Basically the beginning of the true consolidation of professional leagues into one big league, with lesser lights still hoping to compete. It also fits as players were still taking side jobs to survive. I know that Boston players from the 1950s are quoted as saying they needed the championship bonus to pay their summer bills, otherwise they'd be stuck taking side jobs and couldn't train to maintain the level of play.
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  #97  
Old 04-16-2019, 07:45 AM
Always Hyzer Lines Always Hyzer Lines is offline
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I don’t know if we will ever see a player equal to Ken’s mental toughness or overall athleticism. Kenny was vicious on the course. He wanted to make you quit. He was incredibly intimidating to play against. I don’t see that in today’s players. His turnovers are a thing of beauty and I think that skill is somewhat lost given today’s players ability to throw a forehand. I absolutely recognize the need for a forehand but I don’t see the 350’ turnover Roc shots like I used to. Kenny is a master of that shot. His rollers are at a level I don’t see in the present game either. To answer someone’s post above, I could throw Teebirds 430-440 consistently and had no chance of beating Ken in distance.

Paul McBeth is the total package. If we picked the top five skills that make a good disc golfer, Paul is either the best or top three at all of them. He is the best at many attributes such as putting and specifically pressure putting. I’ve never seen anyone better at distance plus accuracy. I’m not sure anyone is even close to him in the ability to put a piece of plastic where he wants it at 400-500 feet.

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  #98  
Old 04-16-2019, 11:18 AM
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Has anyone else noticed how much disdain Climo has for McBeth? He's made it very clear on facebook, with zingers such as "get those McNuts out of your mouth" Clearly there is some jealousy/resentment there. It's hard to blame him though, McBeth gets to tour in relative luxury comparatively. He gets to train at his own facility, whereas Kenny would have to work construction during the week.

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Old 04-16-2019, 11:22 AM
Central Scrutinizer Central Scrutinizer is offline
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I'm very comfortable saying Climo was the greatest player during our sport's earlier days and McBeth is the greatest player since. We can have it both ways. I'm also comfortable imagining both of them would be competitive with one another if McBeth was born in 1969 or if Climo was born in 1990 and they had to grow up with the same variables in play.

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  #100  
Old 04-16-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BuiltTooLong View Post
Has anyone else noticed how much disdain Climo has for McBeth? He's made it very clear on facebook, with zingers such as "get those McNuts out of your mouth" Clearly there is some jealousy/resentment there. It's hard to blame him though, McBeth gets to tour in relative luxury comparatively. He gets to train at his own facility, whereas Kenny would have to work construction during the week.
I don't Facebook for a reason. It encourages us to act reprehensible. This place is only marginally better. If Climo has really done this than I admit to a lot of disappointment.

In fact,i admit that the use of foul language directed at some other person online bugs me per se.

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