#991  
Old 04-17-2019, 02:30 PM
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ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is offline
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Originally Posted by jvphobic View Post
The Masters isn't even in real time. The "live" shots they show you from other cards usually have happened a few minutes prior. And they have a group of about 60 editors throwing that together. But that is semantics.

Here is a quick breakdown. For every card you want to cover well, you need minimum of 2 cameramen & 1 switcher (my job). Ignore things like replay, graphics, etc. And with the cameramen could include roughly 5K-20K worth of equipment between cameras and cell streamers depending on the quality you get. I can get away with covering 1 card well and inserting extra shots on the fly like we did for Worlds. But if you start to add more than that, you need an ADDITIONAL person to coordinate cutting the stuff together and feeding it to the main switcher. It gets very big very quick.

And I understand that people don't want to watch a lot of the extra downtime. I just have a hard time because the post production can't or hasn't replicated any drama nearly to the degree that you get with live. Even this weekend in Jonesboro watching PP come down 18 was awesome, every shot had pressure and something on the line.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately. How many niche sports are free to watch live usually? I think we have painted ourselves in a corner. In a perfect world we should be charging for live & post production and keeping them exclusive for a few weeks before releasing them public. The people that care will pay and that can help offset costs. Then when the sport is big enough you can bring in sponsors to offset the costs and maybe go to a free model. I think we are doing it backwards in our sport starting out free and waiting to build a cost effective model. Because we are letting people get used to all this free content, it is going to be harder to go the other way.

Now, I don't think it is going to change. It was just a thought I had.
Is any of this really free? Considering someone above was talking about the revenue from things like advertisers and patreon - this isn't free. Right now this is being paid for. It just happens to be paid for by, in large part, a big chunk of people who do believe in maintaining this sort of 'free' coverage for all - in the hopes that over time this establishes a standard where it is viable for true advertiser paid coverage to be considered stable - coverage that we're paying for purely with our eyeballs.

I'm not saying its necessarily the best route - just pointing out that what we're getting now isn't free, really. More subsidized.
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  #992  
Old 04-17-2019, 02:58 PM
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Surfing competitions have been around a bit longer than DG but not by much. I would imagine the number of people that know that there is competitive surfing is vastly larger than people that know about Pro DG, considering the shear volume of countries that are involved. Brazil has gone absolutely bananas over surfing the last ten years. Then you have the obvious Australians, S Africans, Hawaiians, West Coast, Florida and all the other countries that participate(Portugal, Britain, France, Japan, Indonesia, New Zealand, etc... The World Surf League has free broadcasts on FBlive, YT and their own site depending on the level of the event. Their YT channel has about 600k+ subs...

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  #993  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:05 PM
jvphobic jvphobic is offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisWoj View Post
Is any of this really free? Considering someone above was talking about the revenue from things like advertisers and patreon - this isn't free. Right now this is being paid for. It just happens to be paid for by, in large part, a big chunk of people who do believe in maintaining this sort of 'free' coverage for all - in the hopes that over time this establishes a standard where it is viable for true advertiser paid coverage to be considered stable - coverage that we're paying for purely with our eyeballs.

I'm not saying its necessarily the best route - just pointing out that what we're getting now isn't free, really. More subsidized.
It is free from a lot of the media crews. Jomez, CCDG, DGPT, & TDGG have all been using Patreon. And those are the best and most loyal of their fans. So you are right that it is subsidized for some crews.

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  #994  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:05 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisWoj View Post
Is any of this really free? Considering someone above was talking about the revenue from things like advertisers and patreon - this isn't free. Right now this is being paid for. It just happens to be paid for by, in large part, a big chunk of people who do believe in maintaining this sort of 'free' coverage for all - in the hopes that over time this establishes a standard where it is viable for true advertiser paid coverage to be considered stable - coverage that we're paying for purely with our eyeballs.

I'm not saying its necessarily the best route - just pointing out that what we're getting now isn't free, really. More subsidized.
I think he meant free to watch, not free to produce. I don't have to pay Smashboxx or DGPT or Jomez or CCDG or any other producers a dime and I get to watch their broadcasts and edited productions immediately after they're made available.

Obviously someone is paying for it. Someone's always paying for everything that is "free". I think what Jonny is saying that perhaps the people that are ponying up money, be it advertisers, sponsors, or Patreon subscribers, should get first crack at watching before making the videos available to all at no charge.

I don't think he's wrong. Just a guess, but I bet Jomez could double their Patreon subscription payouts simply by making their next day videos Patreon exclusive for even just a few days. You want to watch Friday's round on Saturday afternoon/evening, or the entire tournament (Fri-Sun) on Monday night...be a paid subscriber. Don't want to pay, wait until the following Friday night for the free release.
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  #995  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:07 PM
jvphobic jvphobic is offline
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Surfing competitions have been around a bit longer than DG but not by much. I would imagine the number of people that know that there is competitive surfing is vastly larger than people that know about Pro DG, considering the shear volume of countries that are involved. Brazil has gone absolutely bananas over surfing the last ten years. Then you have the obvious Australians, S Africans, Hawaiians, West Coast, Florida and all the other countries that participate(Portugal, Britain, France, Japan, Indonesia, New Zealand, etc... The World Surf League has free broadcasts on FBlive, YT and their own site depending on the level of the event. Their YT channel has about 600k+ subs...
That is a very good example. And maybe we just look at starting out with our Majors or just our PT/NT/Majors? All A-tiers are free or something. Lots of options to pursue if anyone is brave enough to do it.

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Old 04-17-2019, 03:10 PM
jvphobic jvphobic is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
I think he meant free to watch, not free to produce. I don't have to pay Smashboxx or DGPT or Jomez or CCDG or any other producers a dime and I get to watch their broadcasts and edited productions immediately after they're made available.

Obviously someone is paying for it. Someone's always paying for everything that is "free". I think what Jonny is saying that perhaps the people that are ponying up money, be it advertisers, sponsors, or Patreon subscribers, should get first crack at watching before making the videos available to all at no charge.

I don't think he's wrong. Just a guess, but I bet Jomez could double their Patreon subscription payouts simply by making their next day videos Patreon exclusive for even just a few days. You want to watch Friday's round on Saturday afternoon/evening, or the entire tournament (Fri-Sun) on Monday night...be a paid subscriber. Don't want to pay, wait until the following Friday night for the free release.
This is honestly something I have been telling Ian & Terry for a long time now. And Ian does it with Champs vs Chumps.

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  #997  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Surfing competitions have been around a bit longer than DG but not by much. I would imagine the number of people that know that there is competitive surfing is vastly larger than people that know about Pro DG, considering the shear volume of countries that are involved. Brazil has gone absolutely bananas over surfing the last ten years. Then you have the obvious Australians, S Africans, Hawaiians, West Coast, Florida and all the other countries that participate(Portugal, Britain, France, Japan, Indonesia, New Zealand, etc... The World Surf League has free broadcasts on FBlive, YT and their own site depending on the level of the event. Their YT channel has about 600k+ subs...
You could watch pro surfing competition on ABC's Wide World of Sports back in the 1970's. Pretty captive audience, given only three channels to watch.

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  #998  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:14 PM
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You could watch pro surfing competition on ABC's Wide World of Sports back in the 1970's. Pretty captive audience, given only three channels to watch.
Redbull still does TV broadcasts of the events they sponsor but mostly they are months or at the least several weeks later. There were a couple Big Wave events broadcast live on NBCsports last fall though but those are usually just one day events, when the regular tour is usually spread out over multiple days. They did do the Surf Ranch live on nbcs also but that's a unique event where the weather/waves aren't a factor.

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  #999  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:20 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Originally Posted by jvphobic View Post
The Masters isn't even in real time. The "live" shots they show you from other cards usually have happened a few minutes prior. And they have a group of about 60 editors throwing that together. ... For every card you want to cover well, you need minimum of 2 cameramen & 1 switcher (my job). Ignore things like replay, graphics, etc. And with the cameramen could include roughly 5K-20K worth of equipment between cameras and cell streamers depending on the quality you get. I can get away with covering 1 card well and inserting extra shots on the fly like we did for Worlds. But if you start to add more than that, you need an ADDITIONAL person to coordinate cutting the stuff together and feeding it to the main switcher. It gets very big very quick.
Yes I understand some of those shots aren't exactly live but "moments ago" or whatever, and some delays are needed to get them into a sequence for airing. Still, doesn't change my point, that it needs to get closer to that level for me to really sit down and watch 3-4 hours of it.

Thanks for the peek behind the scenes to see what's required to pull it off... wow it will take a lot of resources (beyond what's currently available) to make the live coverage competitive with the post-produced, from my perspective.

But it is great you are taking steps in that direction! Thanks to you and the rest of your team for sticking your necks out on this. Hopefully you will get the return on investment!

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  #1000  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:23 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Agreed for the most part, I do think Nate can be dialed in, but I just don't think Val is the person for the female counterpoint. I do like the male/female combo in the booth btw. But the obvious smiles/romantic eyes to each other during the live broadcast was different to say the least. lol.. Out of all the female commentators the past year or so, are you saying Val is the best one for the job or are you saying if it had to be Val, we can work with it?
I'm saying that Val makes the most sense for the time being because a) she's willing, b) she's available, and c) she has a base of knowledge that few others can match. I mean, I thought Hannah McBeth did a good job co-commentating FPO Worlds with Terry last year. She was prepared, she was eloquent. But compared to Val, she's a rookie golfer. I'd rather hear insights from Nick Faldo (6X Major champion) on the Masters broadcast than a random rookie golfer who didn't get an invitation to play, no matter how well spoken that rookie might be.

Someone else put their finger on the biggest issue with Nate and Val being on together...they both have insights and analysis, and they wind up talking over or past each other trying to make their points. They'd both benefit from having someone who sets up their analysis and then gets out of their way to let them make their points.

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