#841  
Old 08-30-2019, 01:19 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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I think a combination of not tipping backwards in the backswing (leveraging forward a little better) and a slightly later backswing are going to help you as well. I guess implicit in the later back swing is the neutral foot/leg position striding forward.

The tipping I'm talking about:





Should help with balance through the swing as well.
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  #842  
Old 08-30-2019, 01:31 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
I think a combination of not tipping backwards in the backswing (leveraging forward a little better) and a slightly later backswing are going to help you as well. I guess implicit in the later back swing is the neutral foot/leg position striding forward.

The tipping I'm talking about:
For sure. I'm just walking sideways with neutral alignment to practice it and it feels so much more natural. And simpler. Why do we all try to copy things we "think" pro's are doing instead of just doing what feels simple and in balance? Frustrating.

I think it'll be pretty massive too when I figure it out. So many times these changes result in way easier power or more velocity without feeling any different through release. It just works out.
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  #843  
Old 08-30-2019, 03:00 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
Why do we all try to copy things we "think" pro's are doing instead of just doing what feels simple and in balance? Frustrating.
I think it stems from trying to feel powerful and loading way back like immoveable horsestance which is very strong and stable position, but not athletic and quick.

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  #844  
Old 08-30-2019, 08:22 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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If I'm balanced around my spine properly when throwing, should I feel like my right shoulder goes all the way 180 behind me and my left shoulder finishes at the target? Like very fast during the swing?

I had been feeling more like I have that chest to target finish and then the weight of my arm pulls my left side through.

I am feeling a different balance just comparing righty and lefty swings/drills, that causes my right shoulder to finish behind me and my arm to keep getting pulled all the way around...rather than residual momentum do that. I think this is what it feels like to actually be centered...the shoulder keeps pulling the whole way...

Basically what I had been doing was feel like I'm facing chest forward after release and then arm swing keeps pulling me around. This feels like the shoulders continue until they are 180 degrees around with left shoulder at the target, and the right shoulder away from it pulls the arm even faster behind me.
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  #845  
Old 08-30-2019, 09:17 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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I'm not following with how you are describing things. When I'm balance on my front leg, I feel my hand pull my shoulders into the finish. My arm is going much faster than my shoulders. My left shoulder is being pulled inline to the target. My left arm gets whipping around my chest in the finish like taking sip of a beverage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UqQZylULio&t=4m50s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLo97jXn5Wo&t=1m10s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5IlLh_MwB8&t=1m50s


Last edited by sidewinder22; 08-30-2019 at 09:21 PM.
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  #846  
Old 08-31-2019, 12:51 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
My left shoulder is being pulled inline to the target. My left arm gets whipping around my chest in the finish like taking sip of a beverage.
Yeah I realize I'm talking about a feel difference thing...I'll have to video it or throw with it but I think it's the right track. It feels like my left shoulder finishes in line to the target very readily and the arm gets pulled through so fast, rather than just swinging in front of me more slowly as the momentum is dissipating from the throw.
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  #847  
Old 09-18-2019, 07:11 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I feel like I am at the start of a breakthrough on the BH leveage, so I would like some pointers to guide this as smoothly as I can as I'm making these changes.

Basically I practiced striding like a lefty sidearm throw as SW suggested, and once I felt that leverage a bit through my left forearm I did the battering ram feeling so my right arm would go with me too in the BH direction. This showed me that I was letting my right arm lag far too much in RHBH...it has to be with me from the start. It's a different feel than how much the rear arm lags in a FH shot, at least to me.

I know I'm still not perfect on the plant leg, on the rear view I am nose over instep or so, I need to be another 2-3" over my foot and that will help me I'm sure.

But the biggest feel difference is that I'm keeping my right arm out wide with me from the start and it feels like I can pull with my hips so much better. I was feeling the "ball on a string" as in the other edge of the disc was a ball attached through my arm to my spine, from the top of the backswing moving forward. My best throw was a 12' high Destroyer through like 10+MPH wind that went 400-410, I think it had like 430 on it if it had any height and could have flown more fully. This throw felt like the other edge of the disc was arcing away from me during the whole forward swing...there wasn't really an in and out, there wasn't a straight line or anything, it felt very circular and like I just slung THROUGH the other edge as the disc was ejecting. It really carried fast.

This clip was just a typical throw, not one of the exceptional ones. I know I'm still drifting left into my own way. I should likely have more athletic torso tilt and turn back to land lower body first. I had been having better off arm action but I couldn't think about that as much today. I really want to know about that disc weight feel though...it felt very circular to me how the opposite edge was continually arcing far away or around me, not in a line toward the target and then arcing away at the hit.



So is that ball on a string "around" feeling good? I know SW shows the olympic hammer throwers and it was like that feel, not the wide-narrow-wide thing but I'm guessing that narrow part just happens from forearm lag and you don't even need to feel it?

I also hit a personal goal, I threw an Ion 350'. Wind was swirling 10-15MPH in every direction imaginable so I'm sure that in that instant I got a bit of wind assist, but it was by far the farthest flat ground putter I've ever thrown.
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  #848  
Old 09-18-2019, 09:13 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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I'd like to see the rear view for the swing width although I think the address is so much easier to critique rather than the throw.

On the address you need to open your front foot. You are still sending or tipping your upper body over from the rear foot and rear foot is spinning out wildly. You need to push your rear instep into the ground to drive the heel forward underneath you(should feel your tilt going away from target deeper) and move your weight forward in balance from the ground up. Your pressure on the rear foot should roll to the inside/instep and the instep should drag behind the heel as your weightshift(CoG) pulls it off the ground.

Door Frame Drill 2 lower your body going forward into the arm/shoulder to load it. In your x-step you are still turning back too early and start going forward early.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu4CzVnITlo&t=5m56s


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  #849  
Old 09-19-2019, 12:03 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Excellent. I could see in the pre-swing that I was a little bit set up reverse pivot, and I could definitely see that rear foot spin out. I just focused on these things while swinging a lever, but with the ability to feel the end's weight during the entire forward swing from what I learned during today's throws. This is good. I think I'm going to break through this and that 350' putter isn't a fluke.

One quick question first...when setting up in the pre-swing why should my front foot be neutral-open? It feels better I agree. But is it just that if I maintain this feel but let myself turn progressively more closed as I am planting, I'll end up appearing more closed or 90 degree planted?

In feel, it's like from the top of the backswing forward the opposite edge of the disc has centripetal force that I'm pulling on. It's not like a rounded throw where the rim/grip is always pulling on your fingertips and you'll get an early slip, but this is like that exact opposite edge is swinging away from me the whole time in a heavy way and really loading back my arm. This is also feeling similar to the forearm lag I get in my FH shots. I'd never felt this in BH ever, it felt like top of the backswing to the launch position was a guided or waiting stage, then I'd hopefully do the outward swing with some leverage. That's why my hand/disc always did wonky stuff, because I had no control over it and I just assumed it was because that's the direction the elbow bends. This feels heavy and continuous, and with that rear foot push off the instep properly everything feels very heavy and connected. Again, it feels like the lag stage of my FH shot before I swing out through the hit with some elasticity but continual hip leverage. I'm sure my FH is a higher level than my BH form-wise, so getting my BH to feel natural and similar has to be good. Not that I wouldn't like to add 30' to my FH in the future if that could be done safely.
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  #850  
Old 09-19-2019, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
One quick question first...when setting up in the pre-swing why should my front foot be neutral-open? It feels better I agree. But is it just that if I maintain this feel but let myself turn progressively more closed as I am planting, I'll end up appearing more closed or 90 degree planted?
Turning the front foot open/neutral at address has something to do with unrestricting the body/swing to the aim/release point and balance. My foot usually pivots back to this point right after or during release.

Correct, think Open to Closed drill, you start wide open and everything turns together back closed in the backswing. You should really only be turned back past 90 on a left to right distance line, so it's really 90 to the line and just appears turned further back.

One leg drill is a little different at address because you can't reorient the foot in the backswing and 90 degrees give you max range of motion and leverage back and forth to the target.

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