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Old 12-20-2016, 10:17 PM
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Default Ratings School...

Aka Chuck over thinks a problem...

http://www.pdga.com/leagues-vs-tournaments-pt-1
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:36 PM
Vonbeezy1 Vonbeezy1 is offline
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Aka Chuck over thinks a problem...

http://www.pdga.com/leagues-vs-tournaments-pt-1
Stopped reading after it said the SSA changes after every round lulz
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:08 PM
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It makes sense, as far as it goes, but I suspect there are other factors in the SSA difference between league and tournament play. Among these are

---pace of play, thus a longer time between shots, thus harder to stay in a groove.
---a lot more local players, very familiar with the course, in league play.
---and perhaps something else that hasn't come to mind yet.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonbeezy1 View Post
Stopped reading after it said the SSA changes after every round lulz
I don't follow. SSA's are indeed [somewhat] different every round. How much different depends on lots of factors, such as number of propagators, changing course conditions, etc. The basic issue is over-extrapolation: because of all kinds of variables, the existing SSA system does not produce particularly precise (replicable) SSA values, compared to the particular scale used. i.e. if two rounds played on the same course and layout produce SSA values say 10 rating points apart (a fairly common occurrence), ultimately this means that the system itself cannot say for certain which is the 'correct' SSA value (i.e. the margin of error on each value is quite large compared to the scale used.

Or are you suggesting that SSA's *shouldn't* change? i.e. that the rating system should fundamentally work differently than it does?
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:15 PM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
It makes sense, as far as it goes, but I suspect there are other factors in the SSA difference between league and tournament play. Among these are

---pace of play, thus a longer time between shots, thus harder to stay in a groove.
---a lot more local players, very familiar with the course, in league play.
---and perhaps something else that hasn't come to mind yet.
It would be hard to ever determine for sure the contribution of different factors. The point is this combination of differing factors exists and virtually always influences scores in the same direction.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonbeezy1 View Post
Stopped reading after it said the SSA changes after every round lulz
Why?

Also, golf is likely going to a "daily" course rating/slope system. Courses will still be rated (golf courses can't change as much as the A to the C pin position on a disc golf course), but on a day when a bunch of players shoot higher scores than their handicaps because of a bunch of wind or something, the rating/slope will be a little bit higher. (Assuming enough players with established handicaps play that day.)
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:07 AM
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I'm actually most interested in a side-topic that the article didn't mention: the impact of the lower SSA's of league rounds on the ratings points-per-throw (i.e. the overall scoring spread of the rounds). In the PDGA system, the overall slope of the ratings (the 'points-per-throw') is computed solely based on the SSA of the round, with a pair of linear formulas converting SSA to points-per-throw (i.e. a lower SSA produces a smaller points-per-throw value). Do the formulas the PDGA system uses hold up under these kinds of SSA differences? Does the difference in SSA observed between league and tournament rounds produce an equal linear effect on the observed slope of the scoring spread? i.e. Are the league rounds, in addition to producing a lower SSA value, producing a lower overall scoring spread?
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeverett View Post
I'm actually most interested in a side-topic that the article didn't mention: the impact of the lower SSA's of league rounds on the ratings points-per-throw (i.e. the overall scoring spread of the rounds). In the PDGA system, the overall slope of the ratings (the 'points-per-throw') is computed solely based on the SSA of the round, with a pair of linear formulas converting SSA to points-per-throw (i.e. a lower SSA produces a smaller points-per-throw value). Do the formulas the PDGA system uses hold up under these kinds of SSA differences? Does the difference in SSA observed between league and tournament rounds produce an equal linear effect on the observed slope of the scoring spread? i.e. Are the league rounds, in addition to producing a lower SSA value, producing a lower overall scoring spread?
Edit on the above: Oops. it should be 'larger' points-per-throw value. :P A lower SSA produces a larger points-per-throw value.
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Old 12-21-2016, 10:13 AM
cjman cjman is offline
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Hopefully part 3 will outline the process for bringing in a new rating system.
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:22 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeverett View Post
Does the difference in SSA observed between league and tournament rounds produce an equal linear effect on the observed slope of the scoring spread? i.e. Are the league rounds, in addition to producing a lower SSA value, producing a lower overall scoring spread?
A smaller SSA will produce a narrower scoring spread (of actual scores) just because there are fewer throws to be spread around.

You're really asking about whether league rounds have a narrower scoring spread than would be expected for a tournament round with the same SSA, right?

What's your hypothesis on why the linear effect would be different between leagues and tournaments?

Isn't it just as possible league rounds produce a wider scoring spread than a tournament round with the same SSA?

For example, if the two were held on the same course, for the league round to have the same SSA as the tournament round it was probably windy or there was something that made the course physically more difficult on league day (to offset the lack of tournament pressure). Anything that made the course harder for everyone (like a steady wind, or the league was held before the foliage got trimmed) would generally widen the scoring spread because better players are less affected by adverse conditions.
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