#31  
Old 05-01-2020, 10:52 PM
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BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armus Patheticus View Post
I'm not sure exactly what BD means here, but it's probably incorrect either way. While advanced players may manipulate nose angle to acheive particular flights, I have never seen any decent player throw with intentional OAT. There is no such thing as OAT that does not impart wobble, and I have sure never seen a good player toss out an intentionally wobbly spike hyzer or roller etc. Besides this, the disc action needed for a backhand roller is the same as that needed for a hyzer flip, so the rolling "over/under" distinction makes no sense. The over/under distinction makes no sense anyway since there is no such thing as wobble free OAT. As soon as the wobble completes one cycle, it doesn't matter what wrist action it took to create it.

Some players believe that a (rhbb) hyzer flip is performed by rolling the wrist over during release, essentially twisting the disc off its axis to create a hyzer to flat or clockwise corkscrewing flight. This is not true or even faintly logical. A hyzer flip may be performed by wobbling the crud out of an overstable disc (often done with incorrigibly bad sidearms) but no one with any choice in the matter wants to throw this way.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean here but you probably could've used much fewer words to say nonsense.

All players throw with OAT. There are almost never any completely OAT-free throws. Just because you can't perceive any wobble doesn't mean that there isn't any. You can slo-mo just about every player and see some wobble right after it leaves their hand. The cleaner throws stabilize out of the wobble faster than the naked eye can see. If you have good arm speed and form, you can throw with OAT and not show hardly any wobble because the increased spin masks it.
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  #32  
Old 05-03-2020, 12:11 AM
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armiller armiller is offline
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I think I've typed it in some other thread, but I think we refer to two kinds of OAT, and both are helpful. They refer to different axes. 1) Related to the disc's axis, OAT is simple. Your throw/wrist imparts a torque to the disc that is not parallel to the disc's axis. Hence, off-axis torque, and this is wobble. This can be a simple grip issue, or can be a whole form issue.

2) Related to the axis of the swing plane, OAT is a little less simple but way more important to most throws and while learning to throw a disc. Strong-arming can impart torque like this, and so can all kinds of other "herky jerky" form issues. Strictly speaking, I don't think the physics of this concept actually work. Nevertheless, I think we can all identify with "torquing" a disc golf disc. It is definitely possible to do this without wobble, and I don't think that all "OAT#2" throws cause "OAT#1" or wobble. I also don't think that OAT#2 always involves wrist-rolling.

So in that sense, I agree that pros throw with "OAT" when throwing some rollers and some anhyzers and probably some other shots. However, they do it in a very controlled manner. If you thinking about it, the axis of the swing plane (i.e. the orientation of your core as you throw) will simply never get to the right angle to throw a backhand roller quite right. You're never going to be able to bend your back 45 degrees backwards so that your swing plane gets the disc to the anhyzer angle release that you want for a good roller. Hence, some last minute "torquing" of the throw is implemented, very effectively, by the pros. And yes, I'm thinking Nikko, and maybe Sexton, NOT the Eagle or McBeth sky rollers where they hyzer flip something.
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