#11  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:28 AM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is online now
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Originally Posted by Meillo View Post
Don't tee signs typically include distance and elevation change (unless the whole course is plain flat)? Those courses I've played in Germany have both measurements on the tee signs.

But that doesn't answer the question about the responsibility for wrong data ...
Someone here needs to define what is and what is not "wrong" data. All of us can whip out a cell phone and start putting in locations via apps like uDisc. Cell phones are not going to be much better than +/- 30' so is that good enough?

https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

16' accuracy IF you have an open sky all around - in other words no nearby trees.

My suggestion is, if it bothers you that much then go get a 300' fiberglass tape and start measuring and submit your results to the TD prior to the tourney. Its not hard. Tapes range in price from about $25 to $100. I just bought one off of Amazon for about $35. Get a friend to go along and even holes that are more than 300' long take very little time to measure. Pull it out to 300', then leap-frog your way down the fairway. I'm doing this very thing Friday for a tourney on Saturday that is making use of 3 temp holes.

I've suggested the 300' tape thing before and people have a real aversion to this and I have no idea why. This is way way more accurate than whatever numbers your cell phone spits out at you.
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Last edited by davetherocketguy; 10-10-2019 at 07:30 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:56 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davetherocketguy View Post
Someone here needs to define what is and what is not "wrong" data. All of us can whip out a cell phone and start putting in locations via apps like uDisc. Cell phones are not going to be much better than +/- 30' so is that good enough?

https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

16' accuracy IF you have an open sky all around - in other words no nearby trees.

My suggestion is, if it bothers you that much then go get a 300' fiberglass tape and start measuring and submit your results to the TD prior to the tourney. Its not hard. Tapes range in price from about $25 to $100. I just bought one off of Amazon for about $35. Get a friend to go along and even holes that are more than 300' long take very little time to measure. Pull it out to 300', then leap-frog your way down the fairway. I'm doing this very thing Friday for a tourney on Saturday that is making use of 3 temp holes.

I've suggested the 300' tape thing before and people have a real aversion to this and I have no idea why. This is way way more accurate than whatever numbers your cell phone spits out at you.
Tape really is the way to get the most accurate distance data, IMO. GPS has a notable margin of error. Wheels are susceptible to terrain changes. But a tape can be manipulated to measure exactly what you want to measure. On a dogleg, you can measure to the turn, then to the target so you get the desired line of flight measurement. (what good is straight line distance if you can't throw that straight line?)

As for courses having accurate signs or signs at all, doesn't that come down to who's responsible for maintaining the course? By and large, the courses I've played that lacked good signage were a) relatively new, b) lacked community support (small/no club) or c) were poorly maintained in general. If there's a tournament on such a course, I'm not sure I'd expect a TD to go above and beyond to create signs that would surely be temporary. At most, a tournament like that would probably be a C-tier, which should be inexpensive enough for players not to expect pro tour level perks and treatment.

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  #13  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:46 AM
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Discette Discette is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
You come to play in a tournament and you notice the tee signs are not accurate or not readable, etc, etc. Is there any case (tier?) where the TD is responsible for making sure players have accurate distances for each hole (via printed paper, online, etc) ?
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Wrong as in + or - 30ft inaccuracy is not a problem, but paying good money to play a sanctioned tournament and then showing up to a course with bad or no tee signs is a bit of let down. Occasionally in this scenario the td will have a supplemental sheet with distances for each hole which is great. But I was just wondering if the course does not have decent tee signs, is it on the TD to provide distances for each hole? I'm guessing yes, but probably not for the lower C tiers. Looks like I'll just email the pdga and reply here with their answer.
As JC stated, NO. The PDGA does not require the TD to provide accurate distances on tee signs or printed materials - regardless of the Tier of the event. Having accurate distances on tee signs or caddie books is a "best practice", but not a "required practice".

If knowing distances are important to your performance in PDGA events, a range finder is an excellent tool to have in your bag. PDGA rules allow use during competitive rounds (in the time allowed). Finders are also helpful on longer holes to know the remaining distance to the target.

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  #14  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:47 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
...On a dogleg, you can measure to the turn, then to the target so you get the desired line of flight measurement. (what good is straight line distance if you can't throw that straight line?)

...
Nobody has ever determined their line of flight distance. (That would require something like an arc length integral.) They only know how far the disc went from where it was thrown to where it lands.

Most so-called "dog legs" in disc golf are really just one curved throw. For those, straight line distance is what should be shown. No matter how curvy the flight path, players gauge how far away it should land.

A true dog leg is when the disc will land and be thrown again in a different direction. For those, one distance won't be sufficient. Show the distance to the turn, AND (not plus) the distance to the target from the turn.

There is never a reason to NOT include the straight-line distance. Maybe Simon will be playing it.

But, I don't think a TD is required to show anything.

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Old 10-10-2019, 06:07 PM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
There is never a reason to NOT include the straight-line distance. Maybe Simon will be playing it.
.
And straight line distance is going to have a particular method for most accurate depending on elevation, vegetation or other obstacles.

The difference in distance with enough elevation change and or a dog leg can be pretty significant. Enough that any one method just doesn’t give an accurate answer.

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  #16  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:54 PM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
You come to play in a tournament and you notice the tee signs are not accurate or not readable, etc, etc. Is there any case (tier?) where the TD is responsible for making sure players have accurate distances for each hole (via printed paper, online, etc) ?

If it is important to you to have accurate distances, it is your responsibility to accurately determine the distances. Get a rangefinder, learn how to use it, carry it in its holster and take three seconds when you reach the tee box to get the distance.Then, on tournament day, pull out the little booklet that you wrote all the distances in and bob's your uncle.

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  #17  
Old 10-15-2019, 03:15 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is online now
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"Although there is no specific rule that states a TD must provide correct hole distances, it is certainly a most basic and commonly expected practice. Every event, regardless of the tier level, should provide players with a scorecard that notes the distances and pars for each hole."

"Too bad it's not required, would really help when playing courses blind. lol.. Thanks for the reply."

"Yup, the Competition Committee is in discussions on some items that have always been assumed (scorecards, rules sheets, water, etc.) but need to be made requirements."
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  #18  
Old 10-15-2019, 07:09 AM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is online now
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I am going to bang this drum until someone answers...

Before we even dream of making "accurate" distances on scorecards and course signage a requirement I want to know tolerances on distance measurements. We also need to establish the method of measurement so for example - do we measure directly from tee to basket? Or along the intended fairway? I don't think some of you wanting to make this a requirement have any idea how much of an impact this makes on TD's.

Personally I think making "accurate" measurements a requirement is a dumba$$ed idea. What if it isn't accurate? What then? Who determines accuracy? If you're a smart TD you'll have played the course numerous times and if there is a glaring distance error you'll fix it on the scorecards and mention it in the players meeting.

This is a solution in search of a problem.

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  #19  
Old 10-15-2019, 09:42 AM
biscoe biscoe is online now
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post

"Too bad it's not required, would really help when playing courses blind. lol.. Thanks for the reply."
IMO if a player is playing the course blind that is in general due to their own lack of preparation.

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  #20  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:13 AM
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Luckily for me, I can judge distance as far as I can throw. More and more holes exceed that---courses are getting longer, my arm is getting shorter---so it hardly matters. I'm just throwing as far as I can down the fairway, and still stay in the fairway. Perhaps a bigger deal for the 97% of disc golfers who throw further than I do.

On some courses, the real value of knowing the distance, the first time out, is knowing where to look for the basket if it's not readily visible---or, knowing that the basket is 700' away and not likely to be visible.

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