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Old 06-19-2017, 03:51 PM
1978 1978 is offline
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Originally Posted by bwgort View Post
FPO is Open.
Men can't play in FPO, women however can play in MPO, thusly it is not "open." regardless of the "O" in FPO. His point is MPO is the only non restricted division.

So...
Pro Masters and Pro Women are akin to each other because they exclude certain players. So, following that logic, agree or not, Paige and Valorie, etc... are not true Champions because they didnt beat paul or Ricky or whomever. If theirs count as championships, then Pro Master's winner's should as well.
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Last edited by 1978; 06-19-2017 at 03:53 PM.
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  #112  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:53 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Denigrate FPO certainly became a central theme, if FPO get status, why don't Masters?

Personally, if you aren't a Grandmaster, you're not much of a player anyway. Just a hot young arm with no real skill. Just muscling the disc down the fairway. Young punks like KC and Barry S. Even younger punks like PM and RW. Even younger punks like Eagle and Anthony. Even younger punks like... darn, I ran out of young punks.

And somewhere in the bowels was something about the old guys who played guts and double disc court being real men/women and these disc golf only players being piss ants. Then there was the real men sleep with their discs and real women sleep with their disc golf bags comment. Finally, um, I lost my train of thought...
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  #113  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:56 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
Men can't play in FPO, women however can play in MPO, thusly it is not "open." regardless of the "O" in FPO. His point is MPO is the only non restricted division.

So...
Pro Masters and Pro Women are akin to each other because they exclude certain players. So, following that logic, agree or not, Paige and Valorie, etc... are not true Champions because they didnt beat paul or Ricky or whomever. If theirs count as championships, then Pro Master's winner's should as well.
Agree that FPO isn't completely "open".

Disagree that it's the equivalent of MPM. The reasons for protected divisions are quite different.
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  #114  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:58 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
Men can't play in FPO, women however can play in MPO, thusly it is not "open." regardless of the "O" in FPO. His point is MPO is the only non restricted division.

So...
Pro Masters and Pro Women are akin to each other because they exclude certain players. So, following that logic, agree or not, Paige and Valorie, etc... are not true Champions because they didnt beat paul or Ricky or whomever. If theirs count as championships, then Pro Master's winner's should as well.
That's not true, it is open... to any woman who wants to play there, it doesn't discriminate. And by my measure, any guy who opts for a sexual transformation should be allowed to play there too.

I do agree with the point though. If you win in any division, you're a world champion.*

*In your division.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:44 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Okay. To state the obvious:

Women, due to biological factors, on average, are at a disadvantage competing against men. So we create a separate division.

Older people, due to biological factors, on average, are at a disadvantage competing against younger people. So we create a separate division.

The differences are not the same. The biological factors are not the same. The circumstances are not to same. Therein lies the false equivalence.

Women are born with those biological differences, and have them all their lives. It's not something that happens to them over time.

The old men were once young men. They were born with the advantageous male biology, and had their chance. Their age is something than happened to them.

Which is why FPO champions aren't looked at as the best players in the world, but the best of their gender. The MPM champions are still world champions, but they're the best of those who can no longer compete with the best of their gender. It's not the same, and shouldn't be used to diminish the FPO champions.

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  #116  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:36 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Actually, there is one small fault in David's logic. Up until puberty, women, more specifically, girls are as athletically gifted as boys. Our culture doesn't give them the same opportunities that it gives boys. After puberty, I'm all good with what David wrote.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:56 PM
SonicGuy SonicGuy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
Actually, there is one small fault in David's logic. Up until puberty, women, more specifically, girls are as athletically gifted as boys. Our culture doesn't give them the same opportunities that it gives boys. After puberty, I'm all good with what David wrote.
I understand that based on hormones they are effectively the same, but based on life experience there is just something different between boys and girls before puberty. Maybe it's all societal, but I just can't believe it.
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  #118  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:31 PM
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Brain wiring. And I'm fairly sure that, pre-puberty, boys have more testosterone.

But, yeah, Lyle's probably right. I'll concede, and amend my statement that females are born with chromosomes that will (on average) eventually limit their ability to compete with men, in most sports, including ours.

On average, of course. There are some individual women who are better than many men. Lots who are better than me.

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Old 06-19-2017, 08:36 PM
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I'll also concede that the "O" in FPO is a little shaky, since the division isn't completely open, but categorize that with the other imprecise division names we use. Including, for that matter, the "P". But it at least gives the division initials some symmetry.
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  #120  
Old 06-19-2017, 09:07 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicGuy View Post
I understand that based on hormones they are effectively the same, but based on life experience there is just something different between boys and girls before puberty. Maybe it's all societal, but I just can't believe it.
Actually, I tried to say something like that. Clearly I blew it. But yes, because our society treats them differently, they are different. However, when we don't treat them differently you see no real difference. I coached mixed teams and the best player I ever had, Mina, phew. My ankles knew it when I played her. Ferocious is an understatement.

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Last edited by lyleoross; 06-19-2017 at 09:11 PM.
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