#81  
Old 02-17-2017, 01:19 AM
CabMakio CabMakio is offline
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Only about to hit my first year in DG and have never played a tournament so I'm out of the loop

Lets say you enter a $100 tournament that offers a player pack. Obviously the organizers take a cut from each entry as an operation fee which is completely fair and justifiable.

Who pays for the player pack though? Is it just a promotional donation from the distributors or is X% of each entry fee removed to cover the cost of the player pack?

If the latter, how are players not up in arms about this? Are there really people playing $100+ tournaments who really take the player pack into consideration when deciding to enter or not? Aren't they just interested in profit/largest possible prizepool which the player pack eats into? It sounds like they are just forced to buy a disc that they don't need/want just to participate. Surely anyone playing $100+ tournaments already has the discs they need and are just showing up in hopes to profit
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  #82  
Old 02-17-2017, 07:48 AM
bnbanbury bnbanbury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CabMakio View Post
Only about to hit my first year in DG and have never played a tournament so I'm out of the loop

Lets say you enter a $100 tournament that offers a player pack. Obviously the organizers take a cut from each entry as an operation fee which is completely fair and justifiable.

Who pays for the player pack though? Is it just a promotional donation from the distributors or is X% of each entry fee removed to cover the cost of the player pack?

If the latter, how are players not up in arms about this? Are there really people playing $100+ tournaments who really take the player pack into consideration when deciding to enter or not? Aren't they just interested in profit/largest possible prizepool which the player pack eats into? It sounds like they are just forced to buy a disc that they don't need/want just to participate. Surely anyone playing $100+ tournaments already has the discs they need and are just showing up in hopes to profit
The players pack is part of the overall payout to the AMs in the tournament. Payout for AMs is players pack + prizes for top finishes = total prize purse. So yes, your entry goes towards the players pack and it goes towards the payout to the top finishers in the AM division.

However, players packs are not buying a disc necessarily, there are a number of different ways that TDs can handle them. In the example of a more expensive tournament like the one you mention, players packs are often quite extensive offering things like dry fit shirts, pint glasses, camp stools, bags, ect. Some tournaments the PP is just a voucher that you can use for whatever you want. So there are tournaments that increase their draw due to their reputation for offering great players packs.
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  #83  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:07 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by CabMakio View Post
If the latter, how are players not up in arms about this? Are there really people playing $100+ tournaments who really take the player pack into consideration when deciding to enter or not? Aren't they just interested in profit/largest possible prizepool which the player pack eats into? It sounds like they are just forced to buy a disc that they don't need/want just to participate. Surely anyone playing $100+ tournaments already has the discs they need and are just showing up in hopes to profit
Hopefully, most players aren't showing up in hopes to profit. Half won't win anything, fewer will win enough to cover their entry, very few will win enough to cover their expenses---and that's after the effort to sell what they win.

A lot of people will pay $100+ and show up because they want to play in a great event. The players pack and prizes sweeten the experience, to various degrees for various people.

If you want to see amateurs up in arms, run an expensive event with no players pack.

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  #84  
Old 02-17-2017, 10:19 AM
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ShopTom.com ShopTom.com is offline
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I feel the TD can handle payout any way he wishes, as long as that's clearly explained before I register.
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  #85  
Old 02-17-2017, 11:00 AM
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scarpfish scarpfish is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
A lot of people will pay $100+ and show up because they want to play in a great event. The players pack and prizes sweeten the experience, to various degrees for various people.
There's also an increasing number of people who will spend that kind of money and not show up just to get the player's pack. Didn't Ledgestone have around 100 no shows last year?
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:59 AM
Improbably Improbably is online now
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Originally Posted by ShopTom.com View Post
I feel the TD can handle payout any way he wishes, as long as that's clearly explained before I register.
That's pretty much the opposite of how it is.

For Sanctioned evens there is a set of minimum payout requirements; which are often but not always exceeded. For unsanctioned events no set payout rules. In either case clearly explaining how it's going to work before one registers is unheard of.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:39 PM
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jeverett jeverett is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CabMakio View Post
Only about to hit my first year in DG and have never played a tournament so I'm out of the loop

Lets say you enter a $100 tournament that offers a player pack. Obviously the organizers take a cut from each entry as an operation fee which is completely fair and justifiable.

Who pays for the player pack though? Is it just a promotional donation from the distributors or is X% of each entry fee removed to cover the cost of the player pack?
Interestingly, in the vast majority of events (even C-tier ones), the organizers don't (or aren't allowed to) take a cut from each entry. For a C-tier, the PDGA technically does allow the TD/organizers to keep up to 15% of the entry fees, but I know of very few C-tiers that do this. For B-tiers and above, there is no allowance for the TD/organizer at all.

Basically, all of the entry fee must be accounted for, and none of it directly kept by the TD/organizers. "Pass-through" expenses are allowed, though.. e.g. if the organizers/TD get charged to rent the course/park, they can collect these funds from entry fees.

Players packs, then, do indeed come directly from the entry fees paid by (Amateur) players. The TD/organizer is allowed to deduct 'fair' retail prices from entry fees, and then any entry fees left over (after the PDGA fees and such, of course) must go into payouts for those players. Essentially, this means that the only way a TD/organizer can profit from an event (other than soliciting sponsorships) is by bulk/wholesale purchasing of the merchandise that will go into players' packs or is sold for scrip (payouts).
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:47 PM
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Pwingles Pwingles is offline
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Originally Posted by jeverett View Post
Interestingly, in the vast majority of events (even C-tier ones), the organizers don't (or aren't allowed to) take a cut from each entry. For a C-tier, the PDGA technically does allow the TD/organizers to keep up to 15% of the entry fees, but I know of very few C-tiers that do this. For B-tiers and above, there is no allowance for the TD/organizer at all.

Basically, all of the entry fee must be accounted for, and none of it directly kept by the TD/organizers. "Pass-through" expenses are allowed, though.. e.g. if the organizers/TD get charged to rent the course/park, they can collect these funds from entry fees.

Players packs, then, do indeed come directly from the entry fees paid by (Amateur) players. The TD/organizer is allowed to deduct 'fair' retail prices from entry fees, and then any entry fees left over (after the PDGA fees and such, of course) must go into payouts for those players. Essentially, this means that the only way a TD/organizer can profit from an event (other than soliciting sponsorships) is by bulk/wholesale purchasing of the merchandise that will go into players' packs or is sold for scrip (payouts).
This
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  #89  
Old 02-20-2017, 03:38 PM
ScottyLove ScottyLove is offline
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Guess I'm in the minority here... I love getting merch as a payout. I don't pick up stuff I want, but instead pick out stuff I know I can sell on Facebook auctions for stoopid crazy prices.

I then use that money to pay for my next tournament. I'm playing in 50ish tournaments this year, so I need the merch to sustain my tour! I don't want to use my hard earned $$ from my job.

So that's why I call myself a semi-pro. I use other folks $$ to pay for my habit. Does this make me a bad person?
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