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Old 09-11-2019, 11:17 AM
Tepi Tepi is offline
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
That's spiky, Heinδnen is next level tho :

https://youtu.be/_6wAGDBvWwg?t=91
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  #12  
Old 09-11-2019, 11:39 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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When I try to throw grenade shots on a spike angle like that gif (as in disc upside down grip with thumb on inside of rim) with any power over like 40%, I typically get early slips.

Is it maybe useful to try that grip and spike angle to sort out shoulder rotation/disc leverage? As the early slips are SO easily noticeable from a grenade, so mistakes would be easy to feel. Or is this a weirder shot/angle and not necessarily a good translation.
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:51 AM
Palpack1 Palpack1 is offline
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This is fun. So I get out to the field and throw the first round of drives thinking about weight shift, hips, shoulders, and primarily the new idea of a more naturally flowing dingle-like fling instead of straight pull through. Awkward. Not effective. Then for some reason I decided to do 4 or 5 dingle arm windmills and then let it rip without thinking about anything. Lo and Behold it went further and stronger than any of the others. Almost every time I did the dingle warm up it worked.
That brings me to a question. What is the preferred vertical level change during a pull through? Should it stay level to a flat ground all the way through the hit? I assume I shouldn't try to perfect a new style called the Pete Townshend windmill dingle drive. Or is it something in between?

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Old 09-11-2019, 11:51 AM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
When I try to throw grenade shots on a spike angle like that gif (as in disc upside down grip with thumb on inside of rim) with any power over like 40%, I typically get early slips.

Is it maybe useful to try that grip and spike angle to sort out shoulder rotation/disc leverage? As the early slips are SO easily noticeable from a grenade, so mistakes would be easy to feel. Or is this a weirder shot/angle and not necessarily a good translation.
Good question!

I've had near the same experience and thought. I just chalked it up to feeling so unnatural that I wasn't going to get anything translatable for the level of effort vs regular swings, but may be worth a re-look, especially since I think I have a tournament with a grenade shot as a viable Tee option coming in october.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:30 PM
Palpack1 Palpack1 is offline
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That brings me to a question. What is the preferred vertical level change during a pull through? Should it stay level to a flat ground all the way through the hit? I assume I shouldn't try to perfect a new style called the Pete Townshend windmill dingle drive. Or is it something in between?
.
Assuming I'm trying to get a relatively flat throw.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:46 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
When I try to throw grenade shots on a spike angle like that gif (as in disc upside down grip with thumb on inside of rim) with any power over like 40%, I typically get early slips.

Is it maybe useful to try that grip and spike angle to sort out shoulder rotation/disc leverage? As the early slips are SO easily noticeable from a grenade, so mistakes would be easy to feel. Or is this a weirder shot/angle and not necessarily a good translation.
That wasn't a grenade in the gif, just a normal spike hyzer. Not sure whether a grenade grip would help, probably wouldn't hurt. Might help more to use a FH grip on the disc and invert the forearm with the disc. Wrist is stronger going into flexion instead of extension, but disc don't don't fly well upside down, but should feel more natural leverage with FH grip and inverted disc/forearm. Should feel like you could take a basketball shot if you took the disc vertical over the shoulder and spring off the fingers. The disc will fly somewhat from anhyzer angle, I throw some putts this way upside down with FH grip but backhand. It's still the same motion, but you grip the tool you are using.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:52 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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.
Assuming I'm trying to get a relatively flat throw.
Earth isn't flat. Nothing in the universe is flat. If you try to keep the disc flat you will be fighting gravity. There should always be some sort of shallowed pendulum. The only thing that matters is the disc angle at the moment of release.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:05 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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That wasn't a grenade in the gif, just a normal spike hyzer. Not sure whether a grenade grip would help, probably wouldn't hurt. Might help more to use a FH grip on the disc and invert the forearm with the disc. Wrist is stronger going into flexion instead of extension, but disc don't don't fly well upside down, but should feel more natural leverage with FH grip and inverted disc/forearm. Should feel like you could take a basketball shot if you took the disc vertical over the shoulder and spring off the fingers. The disc will fly somewhat from anhyzer angle, I throw some putts this way upside down with FH grip but backhand. It's still the same motion, but you grip the tool you are using.
Oh I've actually never thought of trying that type of a FH grip but upside down...grenade releases burn my thumb on the bottom of the rim so I hate throwing them other than getting over small trees when it makes more sense than a thumber for flight path. But then I see Eagle throwing them FAR with no problem gripping them.

I was more wondering if my early slip tendencies with that type of throw were indicative of shoulder swing/arc issues...which I know/bet they are...and if working from this steep hyzer angle either with a normal grip or grenade style grip is potentially a way to see very clear good or bad results that would apply to normal throws. For example, a slight slip on a normal gripped normal plane shot seems "normal" for me I bet, but in a grenade grip where I have poor leverage/grip, and on an intended high spike line, the early slip is like 20 degrees lower than intended and it's so obvious to see and feel this poor release.

I imagine on a proper grenade or spike hyzer or upside down FH spike type shot like this, you would feel the disc really sling/spring upward rather than rip at all. Like you were saying with your reasoning of why to try the FH grip alignment.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:12 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Oh I've actually never thought of trying that type of a FH grip but upside down...grenade releases burn my thumb on the bottom of the rim so I hate throwing them other than getting over small trees when it makes more sense than a thumber for flight path. But then I see Eagle throwing them FAR with no problem gripping them.

I was more wondering if my early slip tendencies with that type of throw were indicative of shoulder swing/arc issues...which I know/bet they are...and if working from this steep hyzer angle either with a normal grip or grenade style grip is potentially a way to see very clear good or bad results that would apply to normal throws. For example, a slight slip on a normal gripped normal plane shot seems "normal" for me I bet, but in a grenade grip where I have poor leverage/grip, and on an intended high spike line, the early slip is like 20 degrees lower than intended and it's so obvious to see and feel this poor release.

I imagine on a proper grenade or spike hyzer or upside down FH spike type shot like this, you would feel the disc really sling/spring upward rather than rip at all. Like you were saying with your reasoning of why to try the FH grip alignment.
Hard to say, thumber/grenade grip is kind of weird.

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  #20  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:50 PM
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A common instruction tip is to pull in a straight line from full reachback through the hit. In this Simon Lizotte instructional video I noticed something odd. Frame by frame at 1:56 watch the position of the disc in relation to the tree line on the horizon. He does pull in a straight line for most of the pull. But then, at the hit point, it seems that the disc jerks sharply from right to left. I know the elbow is a fulcrum but shouldn't it be tucked so that the disc stays on a straight line? What is going on? It is not an optical illusion because the full picture shows we are looking directly from behind the disc.
This will get me in trouble, but I'm good at that. Go watch a baseball pitcher throw. Throwing a disc is the same thing. When a pitcher loads up, before the "real" throw, there is this sag, a pause before he snaps the ball out. Simon and most pros do something very similar. That tucked disc is part of that sag.

Folks sometimes forget, we are throwing the disc. They get caught up in the mechanical components of the throw. If you've played any ball sport that requires a powerful throw, like baseball, the throw has a structure. A set up, and then a throw. Separating the two is a transition point. Watch any baseball game and you will see it over and over. Recently, Dave Dunipace starting talking about the whip, you can find his comments. The throw is what I view as an active whip. The transition is a relaxation point so that you have the structure to whip the disc. Without that transition, you get no whip, or at least I don't.

Pulling the disc straight through doesn't allow the structure, arm and disc positioning, to whip that disc out. That tuck, that Sidewinder writes about, does. That is why Simon doesn't just pull the disc straight through.

BTW - all the stuff that Sidewinder writes about, well, it isn't part of the throw, in my opinion. It is essential and puts your arm, and body in the correct position, and allows you to build up the energy in your muscles, to give a powerful whip in your throw. If you go through all of his tips, up to the throw, and that transition takes too long, you lose it all and your throw stinks. If you try and begin your throw from the relaxation point, your throw stinks. The whole thing matters.

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