#321  
Old 06-21-2019, 10:42 AM
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aphilso1 aphilso1 is offline
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To elaborate a little on why simply cutting the bottom selling molds isn't a great idea, via an example:

A year ago I was looking to try out some new mids. At the time I was bagging RocX3/Roc3/Roc3/Tursas, and the only one of those discs that I was 100% sold on was the Tursas. So I naturally took a look at the Buzzz and Emac Truth, as those to my knowledge were the other two flagship mids to directly compete with a Roc3. It was a close call, but I ended up deciding to try out the Emac due to the fact that DD had a full assortment of mids all with the same hand feel: Justice/Verdict/Emac/Premac/Evidence/Warrant. I figured that if I like the Emac Truth, then it would be easy to fill in stabilities around it. If I had to make the same decision today, I likely would've tried out the Buzzz instead, due to the existance of the Buzzz OS and Buzzz SS.
While this is only one anecdote, my point is that taking discs out of production can absolutely have an impact on other discs in your lineup. Maximizing cash flow is not as simple as just dropping your bottom feeder molds.
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  #322  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:20 AM
eman6854 eman6854 is offline
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Originally Posted by aphilso1 View Post
I think they've been pretty explicite with what they're trying to do. They're slashing the lowest selling discs without regard to leaving gaps in the lineup or how that will effect sales of other discs. While I think that's a poor, simplistic answer to their cash flow problem, it is very straightforward. We all know exactly what they're trying to do, because they've told us. They're cutting the lowest selling discs.
You think DD is having cash flow problems? If anything I think lat 64 might be. The partnership with discmania seemed very strange to me and they basically let all the big money pros walk. DD keeps saying they have a year or two of inventory on the oop discs maybe they are trying to get a bunch of the other discs from lat in case something happens. That way they would have more time to figure out something if lat has problems.
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  #323  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:36 AM
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So, when do we learn of the other cuts?
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  #324  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:49 AM
Jolt Jolt is online now
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Odd tactic to build up a complete lineup . . and then scrap all the OS putters and US mids.

It will be intresting to see if all the DD Team players that throws Suspect and Slammer makes a switch to the Harp . .they basicly have to
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  #325  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:50 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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You think DD is having cash flow problems? If anything I think lat 64 might be. The partnership with discmania seemed very strange to me and they basically let all the big money pros walk. DD keeps saying they have a year or two of inventory on the oop discs maybe they are trying to get a bunch of the other discs from lat in case something happens. That way they would have more time to figure out something if lat has problems.
I think the bolded is the important component of the retired molds. They're putting the slow moving molds away in order to focus more production time (and presumably quantities) to their better selling discs. My guess is that if they start running low on their inventory of Evidences or Warrants or Patrols and haven't created a new mold to fill that slot, they'll pull one of them out of retirement and do a limited run. Latitude already did that with the Trident...retired it in 2016, then it was one of the first molds they produced in Burst in late 2017. No reason they can't do the same if they see a need.
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  #326  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:52 AM
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aphilso1 aphilso1 is offline
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Originally Posted by eman6854 View Post
You think DD is having cash flow problems? If anything I think lat 64 might be. The partnership with discmania seemed very strange to me and they basically let all the big money pros walk. DD keeps saying they have a year or two of inventory on the oop discs maybe they are trying to get a bunch of the other discs from lat in case something happens. That way they would have more time to figure out something if lat has problems.
Yeah, it certainly seems like they're having cash flow problems based on the scuttlebutt a few pages back. Supposedly the big year in sales that Discraft is enjoying is taking a big bite out of DD's sales. That means retailers are ordering fewer discs from DD, which means there's not enough $$ flowing in to maintain operations at the levels they're used to.

Lat64's operations are more diversified, and thus the drop in American sales should be less impactful to them. They have a larger European presence where (I assume) Discraft isn't stealing as much market share, plus they get $$ both from sales and from manufacturing DD's products, plus they have a new contract to produce some Discmania molds. So while a drop in sales in America hurts, their business model is set up in a way to sustain a hit like that much better than DD's. I'm sure all factions of the Trilogy are hurting, but DD's pain is likely much more severe.
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  #327  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:58 AM
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SD86 SD86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aphilso1 View Post
I think they've been pretty explicite with what they're trying to do. They're slashing the lowest selling discs without regard to leaving gaps in the lineup or how that will effect sales of other discs. While I think that's a poor, simplistic answer to their cash flow problem, it is very straightforward. We all know exactly what they're trying to do, because they've told us. They're cutting the lowest selling discs.
Here we go again: I agree to a point, but that explanation does not adequately cover the Patrol being taken OOP as quickly as it was after being put into production; it contradicts or nearly contradicts some of the things Russo said in his interview/blog (like about the Verdict); and what I consider an inordinate number of stable to understable discs were taken OOP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eman6854 View Post
You think DD is having cash flow problems? If anything I think lat 64 might be. The partnership with discmania seemed very strange to me and they basically let all the big money pros walk. DD keeps saying they have a year or two of inventory on the oop discs maybe they are trying to get a bunch of the other discs from lat in case something happens. That way they would have more time to figure out something if lat has problems.
Edited to add this in and to reply: And that's why I want to see which Lat64 and Westside discs are taken OOP, and make comparisons to the ones DD took out...

Last edited by SD86; 06-21-2019 at 12:00 PM.
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  #328  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:59 AM
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I love understable discs, but even I think the Patrol was too US.
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  #329  
Old 06-21-2019, 12:06 PM
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I love understable discs, but even I think the Patrol was too US.
I can't speak for others, but the Patrol fits me on my home course very nicely. On that infamous (to me) 8th hole, the downhill dogleg-right hole, other US discs such as the M4 and Wombat3 either didn't turn over enough or searched for the ground a bit more quickly than I liked. The Patrol has just the right about of understableness AND glide that gets 'er done for me.

And on other holes on my home course, especially in the woods, I can hyzer-flip the Patrol to a nice straight flight and soft landing, and I don't have to throw it TOO hard to make that happen.

But I don't disagree with you that for a lot of people, the Patrol might be too understable, or too finicky for them to fool around with.
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  #330  
Old 06-21-2019, 12:31 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I think this helps retailers honestly. There's so many discs that come out and push those middleground/forgotten about molds to the backburner. It would suck for a retailer to get a stack of a few of these molds and then they don't move at all....would probably sour them on ordering the new thing that isn't a high speed driver or what they're told they should compared to a known entity.

Like why order a stack of the new OS putter like the Slammer when they know they can sell Zones/Harps? I mean initially noone knew they weren't selling, but at this point now they can't make that "incorrect decision" since they are OOP I guess.

It's one thing being able to order them one at a time if you want as a consumer from the factory, but imagine if you bought a dozen of one of these US mids as a retailer and sold one....but sold like 30 Truths in the same time period.

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