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Old 10-21-2010, 10:13 AM
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Default Intentionally Limiting Supply, or just poor quality control?

Let me first say that I work in the manufacturing sector, so when I say "quality control", I don't necessarily mean dimples and flashing. I mean a lack of consistency from one run of plastic/molds to another.

Second, while I'm targeting Innova with this thread, they're by no means the only disc manufacturer that struggles with inconsistency.

I'm sure everyone is familiar with Steve Jobs' (Apple) reputation for limiting production during initial releases of a new product. Thereby increasing demand for a product, and stretching shopping lines around the block whenever a new iPhone/Pad/Pod is brought to market.

Now transpose that phenomenon to disc golf. CFR discs like glow leopards, translucent champion discs, gummy champ, champ rocs, etc. etc. etc. These discs are obviously limited in production to increase demand.

But what about the rest of Innova's lot? How many times have you or a buddy bought 3 or 5 of the same disc, simply because you fear that the next run won't fly the same? And in some cases, never even get around to using those discs.
Do you think that this is done intentionally, or no?
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:21 AM
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If its not intentional now, I would say from a business standpoint they might want to consider it.
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:58 AM
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I just cannot believe that plastic that was created for the intention of water bottles, childrens toys and sex toys just doesn't have consistant aerodynamic properties.

There should be some kind of government probe.
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:08 AM
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Yes, of course it is intentional. Maybe the old school CE plastic was not intentional, but they certainly learned a lot about demand for specific runs of plastic from that experience.

Just take a quick look at the options in plastic now. How many years went by with only DX for sale? Now you get to pick from DX, Pro, R-Pro, Champion, Star, XG Champ, CFR, etc....

Like most companies that produce anything, they will keep on developing new products that they believe will help turn a profit. Eagles and Teebirds are everywhere because people keep buying em.

Also keep in mind that most discs are purchased by chuckers and noobs who will throw their brand new tye-dyed champ plastic into the lake after 3 rounds and go back to get a brand new one for another $15--$20.
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billnchristy View Post
I just cannot believe that plastic that was created for the intention of water bottles, childrens toys and sex toys just doesn't have consistant aerodynamic properties.

There should be some kind of government probe.
If my sarcasm-ometer is correct, I disagree. Small injection shops, with far less capital than Innova, are able to manufacture knee joints to tolerances of a few microns volumetric, yet disc golf manufacturers aren't able to figure out how to keep the dome on a plastic disc from collapsing during the cooling process.

Buy two boxes of tupperware, same brand, same size, same model, 6 months apart. Now try to fit one of the lids from the first box to one of the tubs from the second. Fit? Thought so.

My question isn't questioning whether consistency is possible, but whether inconsistency is intentional.
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:38 AM
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i think it is. think about it this way: you throw a disc and loves how it flies party beaten in, no you lose it. you go buy the same disc, same weight but it doesnt fly the same. how many more do you buy trying to find that same disc?
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:51 AM
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As with almost everyone here, I don't know. But I'd guess that it's a matter of costing more to manufacture to tighter specifications, and not worth the expense to do so. Intentional, in that they make a business decision to produce to a only certain tolerance. But not intentional, in the sense that Innova (or anyone else) expects someone to buy 9 172g Star Wraiths to find one identical to the one they lost last year.

But what do I know? There's a whole lot more inconsistency in my arm than in the discs.
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:53 AM
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I'd guess that a little of it, especially with the different blends of plastic, is intentional to try to give people what they want. Some may like one mold on the more or less flexible side and as long as you're wise enough to stock up when you find the ones you like, everyone will get the version of the disc they want.

I don't think they purposely limit the number of "good" versions of a disc they make. What would be the point in making some runs purposely "better" than others? Limiting production on a mold or in a plastic makes some sense, but making a worse version on purpose doesn't. Why get consumers "hooked" on a consumable that you don't plan on making more of?

Comparing Tupperware or precision knee joints to discs is asinine. There's no way they'd get the precision they're getting by using the plastic blends the disc companies use and there's no way disc companies would be able to pass rigidity standards if they used the plastics those companies use. Plus, have you seen how expensive Tupperware is? I'm not dropping $50 on a disc and I know I'm not alone on that.

Disc golf consumers demand inexpensive discs and the PDGA demands as safe of a product as they can get. Precision knee joint consumers demand precision and Tupperware consumers demand longevity at the cost of price. Of course it's possible to manufacture discs in the same way as precision knee joints or Tupperware, but you wouldn't meet the consumer's needs.
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:55 AM
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I don't think it's intentional. they don't make any money on the after market sales of rare Rocs that go for hundreds. If it was intentioal, why wouldn't they make a special run of 11x Teebirds or something and jack the prices sky high on those?

Personally, I think they're just morons.
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:58 AM
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Exactly! I know Lightning pro plastic is rejected medical grade plastic.

Also, how many dies and molds do tupperware go through a month? How many years will Innova keep one going? It is just like the aftermarket door parts and stuff you can get for 1960s cars, they are pressed on the same tooling as was done in the 60s and are so sloppy they no longer even represent the original product.

Innova is just now replacing molds that were 10+ years old, how many thousands of pieces of plastic were pushed through that?
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