#71  
Old 06-01-2017, 01:05 PM
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Maybe a better way to put it than my post above is . . . if someone who does disc golf full time in the tournament directing capacity. This means they work 40-50 hours per week for 50 weeks a year (with 2 weeks of vacation) on disc golf tournament promotion and facilitation. Let's say they make a modest income of $30,000 profit. That means that a TD should be able to make approximately $600 from a tournament. That's just simple math . . . if you agree that people spending time promoting and running these events is allowed to profit.
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  #72  
Old 06-01-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
See, this is honestly the problem. No offense to Snapples, but disc golf has nurtured the idea of ROI. I am sure you got a players pack at this event, which likely came somewhere in the neighborhood of your entry fee. To complain about payouts is crazy to me. I have participated in several other sports. None of them give you anything. You pay a hefty entry fee, and get a participation medal. If you place, you get an additional medal. Some of these were very big events. Maybe some of the runners on here could speak to their payouts for marathons, halfs, 10K's or 5K's. You also say "skimming off the top", which lends a pretty negative connotation to any conception that the TD might be earning something. I tend to believe most players have no idea of the costs associated with putting on a tournament. Maybe some of the esteemed TD's here could give us an idea of some of the things that come out of the entry fees.
Players pack was a towel and a mini.

Just saying man, I did the math back then and over half the entry fee wasn't even paid back out. Seems a little ridiculous to take that much.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by eric40817 View Post
If the TDs of my last event were being paid, and my entry fee was higher, I'd have been pissed. Paying a TD makes it a quality event or make them a quality TD.
Sure, if the event was poor and they were running it poorly, that is fine, IMO.

I feel like when you pay extra for something like that, then its fine to expect a certain level of performance from the persons your extra money is going to. Its just important to remember that as it is now, where most TDs arent compensated, that theyre already trying as hard as they can to make the event as enjoyable as possible. So, the fact that they might be compensated in this fictional scenario where you paid an extra $5-10 for the event, doesnt likely guarantee you the experience you necessarily would think you are entitled.

This is where i think the idea itself will have trouble taking hold in the DG community.

The fee isnt guaranteed to give you a better experience, but it will make it easier for someone to justify their time and effort towards putting on an event the next time.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by NegaSnapples View Post
Players pack was a towel and a mini.

Just saying man, I did the math back then and over half the entry fee wasn't even paid back out. Seems a little ridiculous to take that much.
How much went to the pavilion rental? What were the other expenses?

Did you get to play in an organized tournament? What was that worth?

Was it a fundraiser, for the club or course or charity or anything else?
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by harr0140 View Post
Maybe a better way to put it than my post above is . . . if someone who does disc golf full time in the tournament directing capacity. This means they work 40-50 hours per week for 50 weeks a year (with 2 weeks of vacation) on disc golf tournament promotion and facilitation. Let's say they make a modest income of $30,000 profit. That means that a TD should be able to make approximately $600 from a tournament. That's just simple math . . . if you agree that people spending time promoting and running these events is allowed to profit.
As far as I'm concerned, you're allowed to profit.....and I'm happy if you do.

The trick is, how much added value are you giving, over the competition (which is doing it for free)? What makes your activities to much better than players will part with an accumulated $30,000? Are the tournaments that much better? Are they in places that wouldn't have events at all, if not for you?

Don't get me wrong---I hope they are. But the quest to make a living in disc golf means not just activity, it means doing something of greater value.

And overcoming the completion, which is undercutting your prices with "free".

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Old 06-01-2017, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
See, this is honestly the problem. No offense to Snapples, but disc golf has nurtured the idea of ROI. I am sure you got a players pack at this event, which likely came somewhere in the neighborhood of your entry fee. To complain about payouts is crazy to me. I have participated in several other sports. None of them give you anything. You pay a hefty entry fee, and get a participation medal. If you place, you get an additional medal. Some of these were very big events. Maybe some of the runners on here could speak to their payouts for marathons, halfs, 10K's or 5K's. You also say "skimming off the top", which lends a pretty negative connotation to any conception that the TD might be earning something. I tend to believe most players have no idea of the costs associated with putting on a tournament. Maybe some of the esteemed TD's here could give us an idea of some of the things that come out of the entry fees.
With snapples mentality it doesn't matter what cost come out, they want ROI, i have been running events for the last 2 years for my club with a few other dedicated souls. What he says at this point has become white noise to me. Its the same people that whine about the same thing in my area and it gets to the point of why do you even show up.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:20 PM
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And I'll just say this to clear up my stance. I think TD's should be paid. I think taking a certain percentage is just fine and I don't mind it being done.

In my previous posts, at that tournament, the percentage taken far exceeded anything I've ever seen before. I'm sure everyone is going to think I'm just being whiney, but whatever. It was a ridiculous amount taken once I did the math.

It was probably just the PFDO trying to pay for the NT event in August, but still, it was a bad look for that particular TD and that particular tournament. Some transparency would be nice.

Last edited by NegaSnapples; 06-01-2017 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
As far as I'm concerned, you're allowed to profit.....and I'm happy if you do.

The trick is, how much added value are you giving, over the competition (which is doing it for free)? What makes your activities to much better than players will part with an accumulated $30,000? Are the tournaments that much better? Are they in places that wouldn't have events at all, if not for you?

Don't get me wrong---I hope they are. But the quest to make a living in disc golf means not just activity, it means doing something of greater value.

And overcoming the completion, which is undercutting your prices with "free".
agree with this, what are you doing that is better than the local scene? are you undercutting the local scene? supporting the local scene?
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NegaSnapples View Post
And I'll just say this to clear up my stance. I think TD's should be paid. I think taking a certain percentage is just fine and I don't mind it being done.

In my previous posts, at that tournament, the percentage taken far exceeded anything I've ever seen before. I'm sure everyone is going to think I'm just being whiney, but whatever. It was a ridiculous amount taken once I did the math.

It was probably just the PFDO trying to pay for the NT event in August, but still, it was a bad look for that particular TD and that particular tournament. Some transparency would be nice.
And here we find some agreement.

Presumably---not knowing what notice the TD gave, or didn't give, about payouts.

But some transparency is a good thing. Not to degree of opening up the books for everyone to criticize, but the if payout will be less than normal, it's a good idea to make sure people know that, up front.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:30 PM
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agree with this, what are you doing that is better than the local scene? are you undercutting the local scene? supporting the local scene?
Well, that's not quite what I meant.....

What are you doing better for the customers (players)?
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