#141  
Old 10-27-2017, 07:23 PM
jjmiller jjmiller is offline
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Originally Posted by F. Howl View Post
That curl at the rim is what turned me off them. Same problem as Stable^^^. It would dig into the index. Have you tried the Machete? Only a very shallow curl (like the Crush). Much less pronounced and the rim depth is less, too. Should be a comfortable forehand disc.

I have not. There's nothing wrong with Firebirds, and I'm not looking to quit throwing them. I've just been on a "try discs I've always heard about" kick lately. The Felon was really nice in the "better Firebird" role, but it lost a lot of stability really quickly. It also flipped into that same headwind on the same hole I threw the Predator. Didn't have a Firebird on me at the time, but they've always fought wind well for me. Probably just stick with FB's and PD2's.
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  #142  
Old 10-27-2017, 07:43 PM
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armiller armiller is online now
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Originally Posted by jjmiller View Post
After throwing Firebirds as my primary forehand driver for so long, I decided to cash in an Amazon gift card and picked up a Big Z Predator to satisfy curiousity. I wasn't expecting the inner "lip" on the rim to be so pronounced. This disc isn't the most comfortable to grip on forehand throws. It also flipped into a moderate wind on my first throw- which I'm certain a FB would have held up in. That's ok, I still had hopes for overstable backhand shots with the Pred being slightly less stable and with supposedly more glide than a FB. Unfortunately, it's still too much beef for my backhand and isn't that comfortable for that grip, either. Maybe if I can finally get to that next level of backhand power I've been trying to get to for so long, the Pred might be worth a revisit. Until then, it's gonna have a home in the closet.
I've only thrown Z. I think the concept that Predators and Firebirds are similar discs is erroneous, though widespread. Both are similarly overstable (unless you're talking super flat Firebirds), so I'm kind of surprised about turning into a moderate headwind. To me, that probably means either 1) Big Z isn't as overstable as Z, or 2) the awkward grip might have been responsible for an awkward release or some OAT? At any rate, if you're looking for a Discraft "Firebird replacement," I'd agree that the Machete is worth a try, even though I've only felt them in stores and haven't thrown one yet.

I agree with you and with pretty much everyone else that Firebirds feel way better for forehands. The decreased glide tends to make them very consistent as well. The thing about Predators is that they have much better glide. Throwing good backhand shots makes me feel like I'm channeling my inner Nate Doss, but you're right that it requires more arm speed than most of us mere mortals have. The glide also makes Preds fly quite different for overhands. I don't know if you're a tomahawk or thumber guy, but my only ace is a tomahawk with a Predator. I think it's because of the glide that it tends to come down at a little more of an angle, so that there's a better chance of hitting chains instead of dropping straight onto the basket. Anyways, since you've got the disc, you might as well give it a try.

After all that, I might as well admit that the Predator only rarely makes it into the bag (e.g. I recently brought it along as part of a 5 disc travel bag), while my Firebird will be in there for the foreseeable future, for everything from skip shots to headwinds to overhands.
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  #143  
Old 10-27-2017, 07:59 PM
jjmiller jjmiller is offline
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Originally Posted by armiller View Post
I've only thrown Z. I think the concept that Predators and Firebirds are similar discs is erroneous, though widespread. Both are similarly overstable (unless you're talking super flat Firebirds), so I'm kind of surprised about turning into a moderate headwind. To me, that probably means either 1) Big Z isn't as overstable as Z, or 2) the awkward grip might have been responsible for an awkward release or some OAT? At any rate, if you're looking for a Discraft "Firebird replacement," I'd agree that the Machete is worth a try, even though I've only felt them in stores and haven't thrown one yet.

I agree with you and with pretty much everyone else that Firebirds feel way better for forehands. The decreased glide tends to make them very consistent as well. The thing about Predators is that they have much better glide. Throwing good backhand shots makes me feel like I'm channeling my inner Nate Doss, but you're right that it requires more arm speed than most of us mere mortals have. The glide also makes Preds fly quite different for overhands. I don't know if you're a tomahawk or thumber guy, but my only ace is a tomahawk with a Predator. I think it's because of the glide that it tends to come down at a little more of an angle, so that there's a better chance of hitting chains instead of dropping straight onto the basket. Anyways, since you've got the disc, you might as well give it a try.

After all that, I might as well admit that the Predator only rarely makes it into the bag (e.g. I recently brought it along as part of a 5 disc travel bag), while my Firebird will be in there for the foreseeable future, for everything from skip shots to headwinds to overhands.
Ha! My only ace was on a thumber. With a Gator. This Pred does fit a thumber grip pretty well, but I moved back to Indiana last year and there's really just no place at my local courses that calls for overhand shots like the courses in Colorado did with their shorter trees.

And you could very well be correct on the funky grip causing it to flip for me.
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  #144  
Old 10-27-2017, 11:43 PM
Moose33 Moose33 is offline
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That grip on a Pred makes FH really hard with them. Not a Firebird replacement to me for that reason.
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  #145  
Old 10-28-2017, 12:02 AM
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Stable Stable is offline
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Firebirds are much more comfortable without a doubt. I'm sure a lighter weight Firebird with dome can get a Predator flight.
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  #146  
Old 08-14-2018, 03:58 PM
jjmiller jjmiller is offline
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I picked up a Predator stamped as a sparkle crystal FLX while I was spectating at the Ledgestone the other day. It's an entirely different animal than the Big Z I had previously tried. At least as beefy as most Firebirds I've thrown. I'm interested to get some more throws with it.
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  #147  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:58 PM
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Alexplz Alexplz is offline
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Finally found a shop with some preds, vultures, and avengers (Mando's in Auburn). I see what people mean about the uncomfortably sharp rim - I was considering checking out a combo of pred/vulture as an alternative to thundie/FB, maybe one that would be more comfy for FH overall. I don't think that would be the case.

I mention the avenger because I figured the vulture might be a good successor to it as well. In flight, maybe, but the avenger was a little more comfy.
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  #148  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:22 AM
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VictorB VictorB is offline
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I've never had an issue with the rim on a predator. It's all just what you get used to. I never really threw firebirds, went from banshee to predator and basically stuck with it since. Forehand or backhand, never really caused me any discomfort.

The vulture is a decent alternative to beat in predator, if you feel like you'd need something in that slot between your stable fairway and overstable.

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  #149  
Old 11-03-2019, 11:50 AM
Jolt Jolt is offline
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Looking for a "not so stable" Predator, would a domey 169g ESP be a good place to start. . or is the new Big-Z less stable?

Should i look for a smal or large Dome? . . have a flat Z that is crazy OS and a Domey 167g Z that are far less OS . . but looking for a "vulture flight" Predator

Iīm going to need to beat it in. . just trying to figure out which Predator plastic to start with
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  #150  
Old 11-03-2019, 02:02 PM
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jdw80550 jdw80550 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jolt View Post
Looking for a "not so stable" Predator, would a domey 169g ESP be a good place to start. . or is the new Big-Z less stable?

Should i look for a smal or large Dome? . . have a flat Z that is crazy OS and a Domey 167g Z that are far less OS . . but looking for a "vulture flight" Predator

Iīm going to need to beat it in. . just trying to figure out which Predator plastic to start with
The ESP would definitely be the one that will be the most workable and easy to beat in. The anax is also a great disc that would fit into that slot as well. The only reason I bring it up is bc the ESP predator has been discontinued.
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