#281  
Old 11-01-2020, 10:22 AM
Karl Karl is offline
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I would LOVE to have everyone play 100% by the rules. But if we were to do so, a round of dg would take WAY longer than it does now*. Tacitly, I believe players know this and "let the 'little ones' slide a bit" to keep things flowing.

*I did an experiment on this about a decade ago - on a short (4000') course. Three experienced players and I started a round of 18 holes with the intention of 'playing by the book' as completely as we knew how to. 30sec clocks were 'at the ready for every shot;. Every shot was watched by every player. All foot placements were gotten close enough to be seen by every player every time.
Always the 'furthest out played next...and no one went looking for their errant shot off to the side unless it was 'furthest out', etc., etc., etc. And there are a lot of etcs. You could tell around the 4th hole this was wearing on a couple of the players. By somewhere in the middle of the 7th hole, someone said "We'll be here all day! This is stupid." And the experiment dissolved.
If you think playing by the rules 100% - in an 'acceptable time frame' - is easy, try recreating this experiment (with players knowledgeable in the rules...not newbies who don't even realize half the rules that exist exist)!

Ps: Again, I'm for calling everything...but we better plan on longer rounds.
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  #282  
Old 11-01-2020, 10:34 AM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is online now
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Originally Posted by Karl View Post
I would LOVE to have everyone play 100% by the rules. But if we were to do so, a round of dg would take WAY longer than it does now*. Tacitly, I believe players know this and "let the 'little ones' slide a bit" to keep things flowing.

*I did an experiment on this about a decade ago - on a short (4000') course. Three experienced players and I started a round of 18 holes with the intention of 'playing by the book' as completely as we knew how to. 30sec clocks were 'at the ready for every shot;. Every shot was watched by every player. All foot placements were gotten close enough to be seen by every player every time.
Always the 'furthest out played next...and no one went looking for their errant shot off to the side unless it was 'furthest out', etc., etc., etc. And there are a lot of etcs. You could tell around the 4th hole this was wearing on a couple of the players. By somewhere in the middle of the 7th hole, someone said "We'll be here all day! This is stupid." And the experiment dissolved.
If you think playing by the rules 100% - in an 'acceptable time frame' - is easy, try recreating this experiment (with players knowledgeable in the rules...not newbies who don't even realize half the rules that exist exist)!

Ps: Again, I'm for calling everything...but we better plan on longer rounds.
I hear ya. How many people are walking 50 feet into the woods when they are 50 feet the other way? This happens sometimes, maybe not to the same degree but I can't tell if someone is foot faulting 50 feet into the trees away from me. The speed of play would take way longer we just let it slide and we accept that the rules are not going to be enforced perfectly nor ever will. I would rather stick to the bigger fish anyways and make sure people are not pencil whipping which has happened in the past. That's a much bigger deal then a guy in the woods stepping on his mini.

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  #283  
Old 11-01-2020, 11:39 AM
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Nick Pacific Nick Pacific is offline
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Originally Posted by disco40 View Post
That's because panties are in bunches over perceived advantage gained by the breaking of the rule, rather than just the breaking of the rule. There is no advantage to stepping on your marker during a typical fairway throw, but there is a perceived advantage to planting a foot a meter in front of your lie as you throw a step putt. If the focus is entirely on the breaking or not breaking of the rules, the fairway call is a lot easier, but comically less useful in this respect. It makes sense.
Totally disagree. It's a lot harder to consistently hit your mark on a big fairway run up than you're making it out to be, especially if you're throwing a big full power max drive, and especially if you knew they're going to be enforced. You'd see WAY MORE stand still fairway shots, which would drastically cut off the distance pros would get on par 4 holes and make them much more difficult to score on.

It's not just about stepping on the marker, but even more so being behind the marker in the allotted area. Go to your local field, place down a marker, and turn the cell phone camera on and throw 10 full power run up drives, and see for yourself. In my experience it's going to cause much more scoring spread than a stand still putt from 34 feet, not even close.

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  #284  
Old 11-01-2020, 11:56 AM
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Jay Dub Jay Dub is offline
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Yeah, to think stepping on the mini is no big deal is completely wrong.

Players who are concerned about hitting the "legal" mark have another thing to concentrate on over the people who don't give a flying **** about the rules.

"Rules make it hard".
Yeah, no ****.

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  #285  
Old 11-01-2020, 12:01 PM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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I would rather stick to the bigger fish anyways and make sure people are not pencil whipping which has happened in the past. That's a much bigger deal then a guy in the woods stepping on his mini.
How did you find out this was happening? In PDGA tournaments or local minis?
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  #286  
Old 11-01-2020, 12:15 PM
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glassila glassila is offline
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I know it's Hallowe'en, but let's not try to frighten the kids with scary tales. There would be no big argument. A player would make the call, and if another player agreed, there would be a penalty. If the thrower didn't like it, they could appeal later. If no one else saw it, nothing happens.
I don't think there would be big arguments at the pro level, but definitely at the local level.
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  #287  
Old 11-01-2020, 12:28 PM
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glassila glassila is offline
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So you're fine with his front foot being 4-5ft in front of his mini when the disc is released? So what's the big deal with just saying go ahead and do the same exact putt, but start 4-5 ft back so none of your feet ends up in front of the mini when the disc is released? How does that change the game....at.....all in regards to technique, putting / throwing style, etc? The only thing changed is....now...it's much easier to detect a foot fault in real time.
I'm fine with the front foot being 4-5 feet in front of the mini as long as it doesn't touch down before the disc is released. I don't step putt, but I don't mind it whatsoever.

I'm also fine if the player starts 4-5 feet back and then their front foot touches down behind their mini as they are releasing their disc. This would certainly eliminate the "contact beyond the lie" foot fault.
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  #288  
Old 11-01-2020, 12:31 PM
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I'm fine with the front foot being 4-5 feet in front of the mini as long as it doesn't touch down before the disc is released. I don't step putt, but I don't mind it whatsoever.

I'm also fine if the player starts 4-5 feet back and then their front foot touches down behind their mini as they are releasing their disc. This would certainly eliminate the "contact beyond the lie" foot fault.
Isn't #2 easier to learn than #1 on your list?
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  #289  
Old 11-01-2020, 02:57 PM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is online now
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
How did you find out this was happening? In PDGA tournaments or local minis?
Locals, not a huge deal but still a few bucks. Players have been caught in PDGA tourneys as well, I can't remember the names. You'd have to search.
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  #290  
Old 11-01-2020, 05:11 PM
disco40 disco40 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick Pacific View Post
Totally disagree. It's a lot harder to consistently hit your mark on a big fairway run up than you're making it out to be, especially if you're throwing a big full power max drive, and especially if you knew they're going to be enforced. You'd see WAY MORE stand still fairway shots, which would drastically cut off the distance pros would get on par 4 holes and make them much more difficult to score on.

It's not just about stepping on the marker, but even more so being behind the marker in the allotted area. Go to your local field, place down a marker, and turn the cell phone camera on and throw 10 full power run up drives, and see for yourself. In my experience it's going to cause much more scoring spread than a stand still putt from 34 feet, not even close.
Happy to disagree here, and your point is well-taken. It isn't all that easy for me to hit my mark on the course on fairway shots. It's a skill I'm developing and it's actually something I feel good about when I hit my foot plant just right all day.

My point was that the advantage a player gains in the fairway in terms of "is this shot itself easier or harder due to the specific placement of the feet?" is basically none, in almost any situation (exceptional situations in wooded courses are worth noting). The advantage around the circle is much bigger when you foot fault on a step-putt.

But your point that the act of throwing the fairway shot legally is harder, well that is true. It's good to consider that.

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