#241  
Old 11-21-2020, 10:21 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by scooby snack View Post
You’re the one missing the point. It doesn’t take serious athletic training to throw 400’.

Plenty of players throw that far without the serious athletic training that you say is required. They achieved their distance by throwing in a field while applying fundamentals and proper throwing mechanics.

You recently posted video of yourself throwing a tomahawk. You claimed no wrist involvement in tomahawk throwing, and Sidewinder proved you wrong with photos of your throw.
You asked if he can even throw a tomahawk, as if he has no business questioning what you say because you’re experienced and he’s not.

Your response shows that you’re just a troll.
The tomahawk throw doesn't require a spin of the wrist. If you have ever thrown them you would know this. The weight of the tomahawk bends the wrist but as it is released you have to physically hold the wrist back from putting a flick on the wrist. What one sees in the video is not necessarily what actually happens. If you go back and watch Sidewinders GIF of the tomahawk thrower you will see there where he intentionally holds his wrist from flicking after the release. Anyone who has seriously thrown tomahawks would know this. Sidewinder just posts things sometimes and thinks they automatically apply. I can tell you, tomahawk throwing in no way is the same as a disc golf throw.

Does it take serious athletic training to throw a 400 feet laser on a low level line? That's what I'm after.
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  #242  
Old 11-21-2020, 10:34 PM
bsammons bsammons is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
The tomahawk throw doesn't require a spin of the wrist. If you have ever thrown them you would know this. The weight of the tomahawk bends the wrist but as it is released you have to physically hold the wrist back from putting a flick on the wrist. What one sees in the video is not necessarily what actually happens. If you go back and watch Sidewinders GIF of the tomahawk thrower you will see there where he intentionally holds his wrist from flicking after the release. Anyone who has seriously thrown tomahawks would know this. Sidewinder just posts things sometimes and thinks they automatically apply. I can tell you, tomahawk throwing in no way is the same as a disc golf throw.

Does it take serious athletic training to throw a 400 feet laser on a low level line? That's what I'm after.
I came off a torn rotator cuff surgery and an arm in a sling for two months and threw 400 foot lasers my first throws back, 5’10 155 lb. It’s not serious athletic training, it’s mechanics.
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  #243  
Old 11-21-2020, 11:00 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by bsammons View Post
I came off a torn rotator cuff surgery and an arm in a sling for two months and threw 400 foot lasers my first throws back, 5’10 155 lb. It’s not serious athletic training, it’s mechanics.
Yeah, that's kind of what's wrong with the whole scene- guy after guy complaining he can't throw past 300-400 feet and they struggle for years and years, come in here and post and then, they honestly start putting forth "effort" and boom, they then start throwing farther and become convinced it was all mechanics.. Sure, a few mechanic tweaks help but in the end the thing that really propelled them was they started putting forth more physical effort to throw farther. One thing is always apparent in all of their progress above all other things- they get faster, more deliberate and more powerful in their throw. Doing those things create the illusion you are changing mechanics because you start feeling different things. The reality is that you feel it more because of the increased effort.
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  #244  
Old 11-21-2020, 11:09 PM
bsammons bsammons is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Yeah, that's kind of what's wrong with the whole scene- guy after guy complaining he can't throw past 300-400 feet and they struggle for years and years, come in here and post and then, they honestly start putting forth "effort" and boom, they then start throwing farther and become convinced it was all mechanics.. Sure, a few mechanic tweaks help but in the end the thing that really propelled them was they started putting forth more physical effort to throw farther. One thing is always apparent in all of their progress above all other things- they get faster, more deliberate and more powerful in their throw. Doing those things create the illusion you are changing mechanics because you start feeling different things. The reality is that you feel it more because of the increased effort.
You addressed nothing I said. And I don’t say that to brag or to talk down to people struggling to break plateaus. I say that to prove to you it’s not “faster muscle firing” or “increased effort”. It’s mechanics for 95% or so, and effort for maybe the last 5%. Which for a 400 foot throw is... 20 feet. If you watch videos of me throwing now vs throwing two years ago and blurred out my head it wouldn’t even look like the same person throwing.
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  #245  
Old 11-21-2020, 11:20 PM
scooby snack scooby snack is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
The tomahawk throw doesn't require a spin of the wrist. If you have ever thrown them you would know this. The weight of the tomahawk bends the wrist but as it is released you have to physically hold the wrist back from putting a flick on the wrist. What one sees in the video is not necessarily what actually happens. If you go back and watch Sidewinders GIF of the tomahawk thrower you will see there where he intentionally holds his wrist from flicking after the release. Anyone who has seriously thrown tomahawks would know this. Sidewinder just posts things sometimes and thinks they automatically apply. I can tell you, tomahawk throwing in no way is the same as a disc golf throw.

Does it take serious athletic training to throw a 400 feet laser on a low level line? That's what I'm after.
I don’t think Sidewinder posted those pics because he thinks what he says automatically applies to the image at hand.
I think he posted those pictures to show everyone that you’re a big joke.
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  #246  
Old 11-21-2020, 11:38 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Riding the bike builds stamina, lung and heart health and leg muscle. Leg strength is absolutely essential to being proficient at disc golf.
Unless you have weak legs or train like an elite cyclist, riding the bike isn't going to give you the best bang for the buck on building leg strength. Also riding the bike moves the legs in a single plane. You don't throw a disc while on a bike. You need strength and stability in creating force against the ground. Also unless you a sprinting on the bike, what about the fast twitch muscle training you speak of?

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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Pushups build complete core, back, shoulder and upper body strength and conditioning. Why would someone who is performing an athletic sequence not want greater complete strength? Have you ever done pushups and took turns lifting one leg off the ground and felt all of the muscles in the lower and middle back working? Why would someone who is torquing their body not want a strengthened and conditioned back to prevent a back injury?
Pullups are better than pushups at building those attributes. Many relatively weak people can do lots of pushups, but if you can perform a set of 20 pullups you have to have a strong grip, (important for holding onto a disc) you will have better shoulder health and stability, and better overall core strength. Furthermore, most people have issues with an overly kyphotic posture. Pullups help counteract this issue and bring much needed balance, thereby decreasing common injuries.

Pushups primarily work the front deltoids, pectorals, and triceps. No one who seriously wants to work out their back will pick pushups as a main exercise.

If you can't do pullups, do some kind of rowing motion. But in general if you can't do pullups, it means you are either too fat, too weak, or both.

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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
You can have the best timing and sequence in the world and not be able to throw very far if you don't have the fast twitch and correct muscle groups to fire powerfully. One thing always sets apart the top distance throwers from the rest of us and that's their ability to rotate from the power pocket into release very very fast. The top guys are almost a blur. You dont automatically get that with correct timing. Being able to rotate and turn fast requires correct timing but most importantly it requires fast twitch muscles to fire quickly and powerfully. It's the exact readon why the top male throwers throw several hundred feet farther than the top women throwers. Mechanics and timing get you only so far, those extra few hundred feet are all about muscular ability.
Even if what you say about the requirement of fast twitch muscle is true, timing and sequence need to be correct before any of that stuff comes into play. You could have all the fast twitch muscle in the world, but applied incorrectly, it is basically just strongarming.

If you look at any athletic movement at an elite level, technique is paramount.

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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Mechanics and timing get you only so far, those extra few hundred feet are all about muscular ability.
You just admitted that mechanics and timing are the foundation. You don't even get to worry about 500-700 feet until you get to 500 feet first. And by your own statement, the way to get to that 500 foot point is through mechanics and timing.

Again, you are letting the tail wag the dog. You are putting the cart before the horse. Or take your pick of any of those sayings that caution against focusing on the wrong thing.

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  #247  
Old 11-22-2020, 02:51 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by bsammons View Post
You addressed nothing I said. And I don’t say that to brag or to talk down to people struggling to break plateaus. I say that to prove to you it’s not “faster muscle firing” or “increased effort”. It’s mechanics for 95% or so, and effort for maybe the last 5%. Which for a 400 foot throw is... 20 feet. If you watch videos of me throwing now vs throwing two years ago and blurred out my head it wouldn’t even look like the same person throwing.
You aren't going to convince me that mechanics make up 95% of the distance of a throw. I'm basically tbrowing twice as far as when I first started and my mechanics feel about the same. The big difference is I'm much much quicker in my rotation and release. It wasn't mechanics that has allowed me to rotate faster it was training muscle groups to fire quicker and more powerfully..
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  #248  
Old 11-22-2020, 03:06 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
The tomahawk throw doesn't require a spin of the wrist. If you have ever thrown them you would know this. The weight of the tomahawk bends the wrist but as it is released you have to physically hold the wrist back from putting a flick on the wrist. What one sees in the video is not necessarily what actually happens. If you go back and watch Sidewinders GIF of the tomahawk thrower you will see there where he intentionally holds his wrist from flicking after the release. Anyone who has seriously thrown tomahawks would know this. Sidewinder just posts things sometimes and thinks they automatically apply. I can tell you, tomahawk throwing in no way is the same as a disc golf throw.

Does it take serious athletic training to throw a 400 feet laser on a low level line? That's what I'm after.
Look at your wrist!
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  #249  
Old 11-22-2020, 03:10 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
Unless you have weak legs or train like an elite cyclist, riding the bike isn't going to give you the best bang for the buck on building leg strength. Also riding the bike moves the legs in a single plane. You don't throw a disc while on a bike. You need strength and stability in creating force against the ground. Also unless you a sprinting on the bike, what about the fast twitch muscle training you speak of?



Pullups are better than pushups at building those attributes. Many relatively weak people can do lots of pushups, but if you can perform a set of 20 pullups you have to have a strong grip, (important for holding onto a disc) you will have better shoulder health and stability, and better overall core strength. Furthermore, most people have issues with an overly kyphotic posture. Pullups help counteract this issue and bring much needed balance, thereby decreasing common injuries.

Pushups primarily work the front deltoids, pectorals, and triceps. No one who seriously wants to work out their back will pick pushups as a main exercise.

If you can't do pullups, do some kind of rowing motion. But in general if you can't do pullups, it means you are either too fat, too weak, or both.



Even if what you say about the requirement of fast twitch muscle is true, timing and sequence need to be correct before any of that stuff comes into play. You could have all the fast twitch muscle in the world, but applied incorrectly, it is basically just strongarming.

If you look at any athletic movement at an elite level, technique is paramount.



You just admitted that mechanics and timing are the foundation. You don't even get to worry about 500-700 feet until you get to 500 feet first. And by your own statement, the way to get to that 500 foot point is through mechanics and timing.

Again, you are letting the tail wag the dog. You are putting the cart before the horse. Or take your pick of any of those sayings that caution against focusing on the wrong thing.
Well, we are all going to train differently. I choose pushups and bike riding because the results are satisfactory.

Mechanics and timing are very important. But it's only half the equation. Without physical effort the mechanics and timing mean nothing. Being able to rotate fast and powerfully is almost entirely up to muscle ability. Muscle ability also helps fine tune mechanics. For instance- new players rotate very early because it takes longer to fully rotate. Their mechanics is said to this be off. The problem is that they can't really delay because if they do they just don't brace right, the sequence gets all out of whack. As a player trains and builds muscles to fire better it improves their mechanics because they can delay rotation longer which in turn gives them stronger torque, a stronger brace, a more efficient pull of the arm, etc.
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  #250  
Old 11-22-2020, 03:35 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Look at your wrist!
Again, how many times do we got to go over this? What you see is not what one actually feels and does. You truly have never thrown tomahawks have you?
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