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Old 08-28-2016, 06:53 PM
KDinIN KDinIN is offline
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Default Question on Glide

As many on these forums, I am a hobbyist disc golfer who really enjoys the game and would like to get better. One way to get better, is to increase the distance and accuracy from the tee box. Obviously there are other ways to get better, upshots, putting, etc. However, driving distance does have some measurable effect on scores, so it seems like a good place to look to consistently shave some strokes.

That being said, I find myself in a bit of a predicament. I feel like my form is decent (yes I know, form videos are the best way to find out, however, this isn't about that...), with decent amount of snap, that I should be able to throw some "faster" discs. Currently, I just started using a stalker off the tee, after trying to focus on midranges for the summer. When I throw, most anything really, I feel like I spin it on a good flat line, it flies its speed, and then dies. However, there are occasions when I throw a disc, it flies its line, and then I see this thing I can only describe as glide take over, and it ... keeps going. Most of the time, this happens on an elevated tee pad of 5-10 feet.

This got me thinking. Could my flat, not terribly far off the ground straight shots be missing something. Altitude! It seems like, some of the biggest arms throw their discs way higher than I would ever dare, but they never seem to have nose angle issues.

Long story short, it seems like to harness the true glide of a disc, the disc has to have some altitude to it. If that is the case (And I could be wrong in that assumption), how do I throw higher without having nose angle issues?
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2016, 07:04 PM
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TAFL TAFL is offline
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Originally Posted by KDinIN View Post
Long story short, it seems like to harness the true glide of a disc, the disc has to have some altitude to it.
True. I curse quite often when I put a throw out on the line I wanted, only no air under it. What could have been a spectacular throw won't go far if it's not in the air long enough to get anywhere.

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If that is the case (And I could be wrong in that assumption), how do I throw higher without having nose angle issues?
<cue SW>
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Old 08-28-2016, 07:37 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I bet it's nose angle issues. Discs power forward better/longer if they fly nose down. Maybe on an elevated teepad you are throwing more nose down and on a downward trajectory (slightly, small differences matter). This would also have the effect of increasing the cruising velocity slightly and keeping the disc "up to speed" longer.

I would look at nose angle first, and by that, checking your grip: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/r...ttoripit.shtml

Also the harder you throw, the easier it is to throw a disc high and get it to keep powering forward. But these high throws still have the nose down relative to trajectory. Usually if the disc is 10-12' high it has enough height to get to where it's supposed to go and show initial signs of fade. Throwing higher than that, on a golf type shot, may get a bit more distance but it will also accentuate the fade portion of the flight. Of course, this is a generality, as all discs are a bit different and it also really matters on how hard you are throwing (the harder you throw, you can get away with some line drive lasers).

If your discs are hitting the ground before the fade portion of the flight, you are definitely losing some distance.

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Old 08-28-2016, 07:58 PM
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armiller armiller is offline
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I think slowplastic is probably right, and I trust him more than I trust myself as far as this stuff goes.

I do want to say something that we often overlook. When we talk about "nose angle," it's not always clear exactly what we mean. My impression is that most disc golfers mean the angle of the disc with respect to the ground, or to the "surface of the earth" in general. In physics and aerodynamics, the term "angle of attack" is used instead. That's the angle with respect to the direction of the disc's movement.

SO, here are a two situations:
1) You throw the disc perfectly horizontal, but with the nose up (say 20 degrees). This throw will likely climb too much, lose lots of speed, and stall out. In this case, typical "nose angle" and "angle of attack" are the same. This is not a recipe for good distance, and bears a striking resemblance to the famous "noob hyzer."
2) You throw the disc forward but at a bit of an angle (say 10-15 degrees) with respect to the ground. But your form is such that the disc is roughly parallel to the ground (say 5-10 degrees). Notice that the angle of attack is actually negative at the beginning of the flight. SW22 sometimes talks about the "perfect angle," and I think he means matching these two angles to get the maximum distance from the initial turn phase as well as the fade phase at the end. Am I correct?

In the "physics 101" thread from a month or so ago, john63 was talking about "turn" being the phase of flight where AOA is negative, and "fade" being the phase where AOA is positive. I recall there being some disagreement, but I'm inclined to think that's a good generalization.

Maybe everyone knew that already. But we don't usually say it. In particular, I've noticed that angle of attack has tons of impact on high anny flex shots. Get it right, and you've thrown a beauty. Get it wrong, and throws can be impressively ugly.
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Old 08-28-2016, 08:41 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Yeah I'm definitely meaning nose angle relative to trajectory, so thought of as angle of attack.

Generally though, if you are throwing a line drive with a flat-ish release, your disc should just look like ____ from the back, you shouldn't be able to see the flight plate at all really. There are subtleties obviously, but if you can see the flight plate you are likely throwing too nose-up.
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Old 08-28-2016, 08:45 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by KDinIN View Post
Long story short, it seems like to harness the true glide of a disc, the disc has to have some altitude to it. If that is the case (And I could be wrong in that assumption), how do I throw higher without having nose angle issues?
Practice and watch your swing plane/disc alignment.
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:03 PM
KDinIN KDinIN is offline
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Originally Posted by armiller View Post
I think slowplastic is probably right, and I trust him more than I trust myself as far as this stuff goes.

I do want to say something that we often overlook. When we talk about "nose angle," it's not always clear exactly what we mean. My impression is that most disc golfers mean the angle of the disc with respect to the ground, or to the "surface of the earth" in general. In physics and aerodynamics, the term "angle of attack" is used instead. That's the angle with respect to the direction of the disc's movement.
So I am struggling to get the picture that you are painting, not because your explanation isn't good, but because I struggle to visualize stuff like this without pictures lol. I have found some consistency throwing flat and horizontal, basically I throw mostly laser beams that get a bit of fade at the end. I always try visualize my nose angle down on release, and try and push hard down with my thumb. I normally don't see much of the flight plate on this kind of release. But should the nose of the disc literally be angled down (below horizontal?) when I throw? How does that not turn into me throwing the disc into the ground 20 feet in front of me? To be fair, I have had my fair share of those throws...

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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Practice and watch your swing plane/disc alignment.
To be fair, I don't understand what this means, however, I know that you know what you are talking about with stuff like this, so should I do a search for an explanation, or will you willingly repeat?
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by armiller View Post
2) You throw the disc forward but at a bit of an angle (say 10-15 degrees) with respect to the ground. But your form is such that the disc is roughly parallel to the ground (say 5-10 degrees). Notice that the angle of attack is actually negative at the beginning of the flight. SW22 sometimes talks about the "perfect angle," and I think he means matching these two angles to get the maximum distance from the initial turn phase as well as the fade phase at the end. Am I correct?
For the part most yes. It's funny talking about flight angles because it's all dictated at the moment of release (save for wind gusts). You have to predict the apex fall through angle for the change of nose/trajectory for maximum glide.
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Old 08-28-2016, 10:31 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by KDinIN View Post
To be fair, I don't understand what this means, however, I know that you know what you are talking about with stuff like this, so should I do a search for an explanation, or will you willingly repeat?
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/r...ttoripit.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/r...graphing.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/r...s/angles.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/r...ncelines.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/r...esecrets.shtml



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Old 08-28-2016, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KDinIN View Post
So I am struggling to get the picture that you are painting, not because your explanation isn't good, but because I struggle to visualize stuff like this without pictures lol. I have found some consistency throwing flat and horizontal, basically I throw mostly laser beams that get a bit of fade at the end. I always try visualize my nose angle down on release, and try and push hard down with my thumb. I normally don't see much of the flight plate on this kind of release. But should the nose of the disc literally be angled down (below horizontal?) when I throw? How does that not turn into me throwing the disc into the ground 20 feet in front of me? To be fair, I have had my fair share of those throws...
I'm not so good at the practical side, or making your form actually work. That's where I totally defer to guys like sidewinder and slowplastic. You sound like you probably throw better than I do, or at least have a better idea of what good form looks like. I was just trying to say that "nose angle" or "angle of attack" is NOT relative to the ground or the surface of the earth. It's relative to the direction of the disc's movement. Even your nice, flat throws probably are going up a little bit at release. And the downward thumb pressure might already be dropping the nose a little bit so that there's a downward angle of attack. Not sure if that helps...

Actually, this probably has a lot to do with sidewinder's comment about swing plane and grip alignment. I would imagine that your swing plane determines the trajectory, or line of movement, for the disc, whereas the "grip alignment" is what determines the angle of attack. Getting them to work together is the trick.
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