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Old 02-18-2019, 05:19 AM
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Default Interference

Specifically 810.F - If a player or their equipment interferes with their own throw, the player is assessed one penalty throw. The disc is played where it first comes to rest. See 810.E for intentional interference.

Watching this footage - https://youtu.be/x_ZVItWfImE?t=535 (hole 12 putting out, if the timestamp doesn't work)

Does your mini (or previously thrown disc if no mini used) count as your equipment if laying flat on the ground in the position it has marked your shot. Is it still part of the same "throw" and so if hit wouldn't constitute interference?

Or would you be expected to pick it up as Brian does here in the video?

For me the marker disc would still be part of the overall throw and you should not receive a penalty if your thrown disc hits it.

(Looks like his towel was later hit so probably should have received a 1 shot penalty for that.)
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:01 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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I think the marker, being where it is due to the rules of the game rather than an explicit choice by the player, doesn't have to be moved to prevent it from being struck by a moving disc. The marker in that instant is the same as any other player's disc on the playing surface, and since there would be no penalties assessed if the thrown disc struck another player's disc, striking the marker shouldn't incur a penalty for the thrower.

The towel is a trickier question. The rule says "interference" which leaves things open to interpretation, I think. Is it really interference if the disc rolls right over the towel without stopping or even slowing down (which appears to be the case in the video)? I'd say if the rolling disc struck the towel or the other disc laying with it and clearly slowed down, changed directions, or came to a stop as a result, then it is interference and a penalty could be assessed. But if it doesn't do any of those things even if it makes slight contact, I'd be more hesitant to assign a penalty.
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post

The towel is a trickier question. The rule says "interference" which leaves things open to interpretation, I think. Is it really interference if the disc rolls right over the towel without stopping or even slowing down (which appears to be the case in the video)? I'd say if the rolling disc struck the towel or the other disc laying with it and clearly slowed down, changed directions, or came to a stop as a result, then it is interference and a penalty could be assessed. But if it doesn't do any of those things even if it makes slight contact, I'd be more hesitant to assign a penalty.
One of the rare times I'd disagree with you here.

IMO There doesn't need to be a shade of grey in the ruling nor, again IMO, does the wording really open itself to any.

It hits your equipment, it's interference. No one knows what effect the touch will have, without the towel touch maybe the disc may have accelerated, bounded over the rock which actually stopped it in a majestic salmon like gravity defying leap and rolled 100' away.

There's no requirement for any interpretation of what justifies interference if it is as clear as "disc hits your stuff, it's a stroke penalty." Keep it clear so there can be no judgement calls that might favour one group one way and another another. I liked the change on this wording so it did exactly that from the old definition which was too open to judgement.

There will be really unfortunate cases (like this would have been if indeed it did hit the towel and he had been called on it) but it gives a more level playing field which is what the rules are there for.

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Old 02-18-2019, 07:59 AM
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Imo, the marker is fine if left where it sits. I dont think you should be required to move it out of the way because it is in play and therefore has to be there. A bag/towel/cart/birdie bag/umbrella doesn't have to be there and in the way.

I think leaving the towel there should be treated like leaving your bag/cart there. You are responsible for making sure your equipment is not in the way of a disc in play. I also think there shouldn't be a grey area of whether or not the equipment actually caused it to stay in or go out of bounds. It hit it. Penalty.

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Old 02-18-2019, 08:06 AM
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IMO if the equipment is where it is supposed to be (behind the player's lie) and the disc strikes it there should be no foul. The rule is unfortunately not written as such (shocker). The result of the disc rolling over the towel should be immaterial either way. I don't really see the point in differentiating between a player interfering with their own shot and 'intentional interference". Player should not be penalized for a random occurrence of a disc rolling back behind their lie- if that is the case then there is literally nowhere you can leave your equipment to be safe from it.

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Old 02-18-2019, 08:15 AM
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Thing is, just because the disc passed over the towel doesn't mean it touched it. It could have bounced over it without making contact (especially on a rough terrain like in the video). I think that's where my hesitancy to make a definitive ruling, at least in the hypothetical, comes from. For me, it goes to 801.02 B "Players are expected to call a violation when one has clearly occurred." I'd need to see the disc appreciably slow down or change direction or stop completely due to the towel before I'd say it was clearly interference and deserving a penalty.

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Old 02-18-2019, 08:39 AM
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I think this is one of the rules where removing the warning was probably a bad idea. In this instance, it probably didn't actually alter the discs course but there is no wiggle room in the rule as written now. It doesn't say alters the path of the disc it just says interferes with. So if it did clearly hit the towel, its a penalty. If its not clear whether it hit the towel, benefit would go to the player. The degree to which the disc was interfered with, if it did clearly hit the towel, doesn't matter under the current rule.


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Player should not be penalized for a random occurrence of a disc rolling back behind their lie- if that is the case then there is literally nowhere you can leave your equipment to be safe from it.
I think on a putt like this, the player should assume a rollway is a likely result of a missed putt. So placing any equipment on a more or less direct line from the basket thru the marker on the line of play, wouldn't be a random occurrence.

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Old 02-18-2019, 09:03 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post

I think on a putt like this, the player should assume a rollway is a likely result of a missed putt. So placing any equipment on a more or less direct line from the basket thru the marker on the line of play, wouldn't be a random occurrence.
The likelihood of it rolling straight back is no greater than the likelihood of it rolling anywhere else in a roughly 45 degree arc. What you are saying is basically "don't leave your stuff directly behind your lie"- that makes no sense whatsoever.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:12 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
I think this is one of the rules where removing the warning was probably a bad idea. In this instance, it probably didn't actually alter the discs course but there is no wiggle room in the rule as written now. It doesn't say alters the path of the disc it just says interferes with. So if it did clearly hit the towel, its a penalty. If its not clear whether it hit the towel, benefit would go to the player. The degree to which the disc was interfered with, if it did clearly hit the towel, doesn't matter under the current rule.
This isn't a rule that ever had a warning. It wasn't even a rule until last January when the current rule book took effect.

I agree that if it is obvious the disc made contact, then an interference penalty is warranted. My point all along has been that the contact has to be obvious. If it barely brushed the towel on its way by, such that it would take slow mo replay and a super zoom to confirm contact, then it can't justifiably be considered interference.

As to the merits of the rule itself, I think a great deal of players' carelessness with their equipment is rooted in this interference rule being so new. For years, players didn't pay attention to where they left their equipment because the prospect of interference or more specifically, a penalty, was a non-factor. Even if interference was obviously a likely possibility, because of the grey area of "intention" being required, penalties were near impossible to impose.

By and large, I think the current rule is better than the nebulous nature of the old one. I don't think it's a bad thing for players to be penalized if a disc like the one in the video rolls away and strikes them or their equipment. Perhaps habits like the one displayed in the video of leaving equipment laying around need to be broken to comply with the rule rather than the rules being relaxed to accommodate the players. There's no real need to just drop the towel and disc there...they could have been placed with the player's bag, which is nowhere in sight and must not be anywhere close enough to interfere. Or, they could have been set down in a place where the player could pick them up as quickly as he did the mini.

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Old 02-18-2019, 09:39 AM
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The likelihood of it rolling straight back is no greater than the likelihood of it rolling anywhere else in a roughly 45 degree arc. What you are saying is basically "don't leave your stuff directly behind your lie"- that makes no sense whatsoever.
I guess you have never missed a steep uphill putt before then...

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