#21  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:07 PM
Bradley Walker Bradley Walker is offline
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Originally Posted by axion View Post
Can we get a video of someone showing this? Im a bit confused. Im understanding this as not moving my right shoulder, but bring my left shoulder around it? Im probably just confused.
I think if one starts injecting "other" ideas into this is just going to be confused.

I never said to not move your right shoulder. Maybe you mean I said to not really do anything with your throwing arm?

Hold your throwing arm straight out in front of you with a slight bend in your elbow like you are holding a disc. Reach your left hand across and put it in your right armpit or on top of your shoulder.

Now go through your x step and ignore your right side or throwing arm and simply put your left side behind your right, and then snap your left side around your right. Watch how your throwing arm will snap around you.

See previous posts for clarification.
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  #22  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:16 PM
axion axion is offline
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> and then snap your left side around your right. Watch how your throwing arm will snap around you.

Im obviously misunderstanding what you want here. Just feels like Im spinning in place or something. If when you have time, you could slap up a video I would be greatly appreciative.

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  #23  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:20 PM
Bradley Walker Bradley Walker is offline
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Originally Posted by axion View Post
> and then snap your left side around your right. Watch how your throwing arm will snap around you.

Im obviously misunderstanding what you want here. Just feels like Im spinning in place or something. If when you have time, you could slap up a video I would be greatly appreciative.
Maybe you are... for the first time truly rotating freely without being stuck. How fast is your arm going?
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  #24  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:45 PM
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VictorB VictorB is offline
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I think I've halfway figured this out this season. Driving through my left side makes me feel like my front arm 'launches' in an arc. It definitely pulls my body more around than a more traditional feeling front foot plant
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  #25  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:54 PM
Bradley Walker Bradley Walker is offline
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Just removing the left arm from the equation completely (and tucking it into the right armpit) is really illuminating in itself.
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  #26  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:55 PM
Lazerface Lazerface is offline
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I'm excited to try/focus on this.
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  #27  
Old 10-19-2018, 02:03 PM
broomerang broomerang is offline
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Tried this last night with a 10lb plate and then swung a golf club to remind myself how to feel the hit properly. This is the feeling I've been trying to achieve when throwing backhand but couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong vs my golf swing. I'm a former collegiate golfer that stopped playing thanks to a shoulder/upper back injury.

Will give me something to practice in the off-season besides putting for sure.
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  #28  
Old 10-19-2018, 02:18 PM
Discusted Discusted is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley Walker View Post
I never advocated any "wide rail".

For the record I think all these approaches to describing a pull line are BS. These all try to describe an arc in linear terms. It is an arc, with two other arcs attached to it... It appears linear simply due to momentum. When you pull on something it snaps straight. The linear appearance is simply an EFFECT, not a cause.

You can still work on the elbow, but if you are not achieving the same trailing side to front side relationship as Kevin Jones shown here, it really does very little as a form improver.

For the purpose of this completely new approach, if you keep your elbow joint soft, it will find the angles.
This makes sense to me. I've tried wide rails and straight rails, and my accuracy and power seems to be better with straight. When you say it's 2 arcs, I never really though about it that way, but I guess that's what it is isn't it. The first arc is create by the rotation of the torso which rotates the shoulder, since th arm is being dragged it looks like a straight line. The second arc is the elbow extension. Is this right?
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  #29  
Old 10-19-2018, 02:27 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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This makes sense to me. I've tried wide rails and straight rails, and my accuracy and power seems to be better with straight. When you say it's 2 arcs, I never really though about it that way, but I guess that's what it is isn't it. The first arc is create by the rotation of the torso which rotates the shoulder, since th arm is being dragged it looks like a straight line. The second arc is the elbow extension. Is this right?
To others, just skip this post if you don't want confusion.

It's so complicated...but if your balance is right it lines up...and knowing the goals helps you be aware of what to try to do or feel. Since IMO you have to feel these things, it's too much to "try".

Your spine is rotating but it is not vertical exactly, so it's like a precession in how the shoulders move from the hips/torso rotating or swiveling. Then you try to keep the arm straight but your elbow gets loaded back, and the wrist and disc will also have a slight load. And this all has to be counterbalanced. How everything ends up lining up is really really hard for me to think about since it's not simply flat or straight even if the end hit point is "straight" at that instant, as the shoulders kind of swing in an arc too under your chin it seems.

So it's best to be aware that you want the arcs to line up, far away from you, with a pretty long arm feel, and when you're facing 10:30ish at this time.

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Last edited by slowplastic; 10-19-2018 at 02:29 PM.
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  #30  
Old 10-19-2018, 02:57 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
So it's best to be aware that you want the arcs to line up, far away from you, with a pretty long arm feel, and when you're facing 10:30ish at this time.
That's a great way to describe it, and as I was working with a friend yesterday on moving his arc out front, it was so plainly clear to me that our offset-shift only works if you get the arc out front.

When he was falling into old habits of throwing from the left shoulder, the power that was added by the off-set shift was ripping the disc from his hand well before the hit (sawed off shots).

I've tried to reinforce the idea for a very long time, that we're building a frame that gets powered up based on the magic that we can harness with the levers of our arm. The only muscle that I use is to hold the frame in place.

As I watched Bradley's throws from a few weeks back, I could see he was still using arm muscle to "crack the whip", which IMO is still too much muscle. Even if you're putting the arc in the right place, if you're actively arming the disc - I think you're missing out on letting the physics do the work for you. I'm not bagging on anybody at all, and maybe I was seeing something that wasn't there - but it boils down to the difference between throwing something forward and resisting your momentum and transfer it into the disc, so that you can do this:



And I believe that reading the OP, you're on the right path. It's so key to realize that:

1. Your weight shift is not targetward, but about 20-ish degrees more closed from your target and the implications of this with regards to throwing hyzer and anhyzer are pretty exaggerated (as my annie lines are now x-steps coming in from the right side of the teebox).

2. Muscle is really only used to hold the frame and posture in place.

3. Posture is so key to maintaining the angles to resist the redirection, if you're collapsing forward, you can't resist. If you're too far back, then you probably never posted up on the frontside. That's why I like the battering ram analogy or the idea of underhanding a medicine ball forward, it's worth actually doing.

Appreciate the thread and it's great to have some movement in the forum!

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