#21  
Old 11-13-2018, 07:26 AM
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drk_evns drk_evns is offline
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The elbow should collapse below 90 degrees at the power pocket?

Do you mean shoulder?
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  #22  
Old 11-13-2018, 07:49 AM
Hoeschel Hoeschel is offline
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No to both?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
... imitate the pros(never let you elbow collapse to <90°).
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Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
The elbow should never be less than 90 degrees ...
I'm really confused now. Maybe it is the language after all.

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  #23  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:01 AM
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drk_evns drk_evns is offline
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Someone correct me if I’m missing something, but:

Instead try and keep your shoulder from ever collapsing below 90 degrees. In fact, keep it somewhat locked in at about 110-120 degrees. Don’t worry about your elbow, let it swing freely.

I don’t think HUB was being condescending

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Old 11-13-2018, 09:17 AM
Hyzflip10 Hyzflip10 is offline
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This gets my vote for thread hijack of the year.
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
How do you know that is not what seppo means? Have you seen him throw? He certainly does not tuck his chin into his chest.



This part makes me unreasonably angry. Maybe its the language barrier but it sounds so condescending to me. I mean, you definitely know a lot more about form than me so i don't want to pass judgement, but if you go through your old blog-entries, is that really what you are doing?

Personally, i had a big breakthrough lately and all i had to do was ignore advice i got here (get to the right peck) and imitate the pros(never let you elbow collapse to <90°). Don't get me wrong, i absolutely appreciate all the videos, advice and discussions. I just have my doubts that the level of certainty displayed above is warranted.
It must be the language barrier, bud. I've met HUB in person more than once and he's definitely a dude I'd invite to my house for football, beer, and chicken wings.

I think the tone you misinterpreted was not meant to be condescending, rather, I took it as a guy who has been grinding out his form for years, and is excited to share much easier to learn concepts that could've shaved years off of his learning curve, and he's trying to shave that learning curve down for anyone willing to listen.

Congrats on the breakthrough!
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:01 PM
BHock87 BHock87 is offline
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This gets my vote for thread hijack of the year.
Not at all. I simply posted the critique so people could see Will's thoughts, then it blossomed into a form discussion. I'm perfectly fine with this.
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  #27  
Old 11-13-2018, 12:59 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by Lumberjack504 View Post
I've met HUB in person more than once and he's definitely a dude I'd invite to my house for football, beer, and chicken wings.
I am in.

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  #28  
Old 11-13-2018, 01:16 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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FWIW even though Will's advice is more general or uses some other terms, etc., it's really interesting for me to hear from someone who has been a top tier player and has massive power. Everyone learns different, and sometimes hearing something with a different wording or new analogy or a different marked up diagram can click for them.

That being said, feel isn't real for lots of things, and when you've been feeling how to throw 500+ for like a decade then you likely don't need to think about all the gritty little changes all the time. It's just a different perspective which is really interesting for me to see.

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  #29  
Old 11-13-2018, 10:18 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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I think it's unfortunate that some of the best pros simply just don't know what good form is or don't fully understand why they do what they do. But this isn't surprising. It's like this in almost every sport. That's because typically the best players are the ones who have been playing (whichever sport) since they were kids. This is certainly true of Seppo and Schusterick. Both great players, but both who developed their form fairly organically by lots of practice and trial and error as young kids. If you already "get it" there's no reason to deep dive into body mechanics and form. It would only be a distraction and hindrance to anyone's game at that level. If you are familiar with the four stages of competence, all the top pros are operating at the final stage: unconscious competence. At that stage, you can only perform worse if you "think" about what you are doing. Now, Schusterick, I don't know what happened but he's totally trashed his form in the last few years, but it used to be good. Maybe he started thinking about it too much?

The unfortunate thing is that some people will only listen to pros for form advice and that can lead people down the wrong path for a long time before they realize they weren't really taught the right concepts to begin with. Lots of experienced throwers here can relate to that.

The good thing is that as the sport grows, there will be more form coaches who really do know what they are talking about.

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  #30  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
No to both?

I'm really confused now. Maybe it is the language after all.

Bad (narrow angle):

Good:
I've said this many times before... I think a lot disc golfers also tend to confuse a DRILL with THROWING. This confusion doesn't tend to happen in other sports for whatever reason, maybe because they tend to have live coaches emphasizing that fact, or maybe because it's simply more obvious or natural in other sports than in a BH swing which seems to be completely unnatural and mystify people(it used to mystify me too). For instance in swimming we practice the thumb drag recovery drill all the time to exaggerate the high elbow coming out of the water to increase body rotation and extension, but I've never seen anybody in the history of swimming competition try to swim using the thumb drag drill because it's obviously slower. Drills are meant to exaggerate a certain part or feeling of the throw. You must figure out how to incorporate that exaggeration into your throw through practice, lots of practice.
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