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  #21  
Old 06-24-2022, 07:43 AM
Rastnav Rastnav is offline
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Originally Posted by hisdudeness47 View Post
I mean hell, I'm still trying to figure out which stacked grip is which in this debate.
The debate is about where the pads of the fingers sit, not so much which finger is stacked over the other. Pads of the fingers pressed on the rim vs. pads of the fingers pressed up against the flight plate. Sheep is saying that pads on the rim results in less strain on the joints of the hand.
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  #22  
Old 06-24-2022, 07:53 AM
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Sheep Sheep is offline
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Originally Posted by hisdudeness47 View Post
I mean hell, I'm still trying to figure out which stacked grip is which in this debate.
See this graphic I don't particularly care for, but it works. But that's mainly because I don't know anyone who uses the "stacked" vs the "power" they are demonstrating here. Most everyone uses the "power" here and calls it stacked. In my experience anyways.

The 2 finger grip its demonstrating a lot of people use. It doesn't allow for proper wrist movement during the throw and puts pressure on your hand in really odd ways.

The stacked grip (power in the graphic) is the normal grip which a lot of people use.
They generally use the two finger or some version of a stacked.

Both have their benefits
I actually have a very specific throw I do where I use a two finger fan grip, which isn't even shown in this graphic.

The stacked style grips promote good wrist movement and allow you to use your hand to properly apply power into the disc with how your joints are designed to work.
While the two finger does not.

So, to draw back to the original topic of the thread.
"serving the pizza" (which is the dumbest thing i've ever heard)

If you're throwing a stacked style grip, you do not want to try and "serve the pizza" like scott is talking about.

If you're throwing a 2 finger style grip with your palm up to the plate. You need to serve the pizza.
Otherwise you'll be rolling your wrist and creating OAT.


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Originally Posted by Rastnav View Post
The debate is about where the pads of the fingers sit, not so much which finger is stacked over the other. Pads of the fingers pressed on the rim vs. pads of the fingers pressed up against the flight plate. Sheep is saying that pads on the rim results in less strain on the joints of the hand.
I don't think people really put much thought into it honestly.
I hate my brain works this way and I wish I could just throw discs watch go woosh. But I'm thinking about far more than that.

Simply putting a disc in the 2 finger grip and grabbing the disc and flexing it back into your hand like it would see stress in the throw, you should be able to feel the strain all throughout your hand into your wrist just doing that.
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  #23  
Old 06-24-2022, 08:04 AM
Rastnav Rastnav is offline
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I hate my brain works this way and I wish I could just throw discs watch go woosh. But I'm thinking about far more than that.
I’ve been overthinking things since about 1972, as I was born in 1969.

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  #24  
Old 06-24-2022, 10:35 AM
BillFleming BillFleming is offline
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In all honesty to put this bluntly. Don't defend stupidity because what they are doing is working for "that" moment.
I wasn't defending stupidity or anything else. I was just making a comment that Eagle's injury was due to him doing that 360 throw which he had never done before. Sidewinder22 pointed out that Eagle had issues before then, which I wasn't aware of. But believe me, I was not defending stupidity....I thought Eagle's 360 forehand for Jomez was the height of stupidity....doing a throw you've never done before just for a video when you depend on the health of your body for your career.
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  #25  
Old 06-24-2022, 05:05 PM
hisdudeness47 hisdudeness47 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rastnav View Post
The debate is about where the pads of the fingers sit, not so much which finger is stacked over the other. Pads of the fingers pressed on the rim vs. pads of the fingers pressed up against the flight plate. Sheep is saying that pads on the rim results in less strain on the joints of the hand.
Oh it's pads on the rim all the way. It's hammering a nail, not karate choppin'. I don't know about finger strain and all that but I know this is much better for my elbow tendonitis (had it since pitching as a teen). Pads on the flight plate is like throwing a slider over and over and over. Pads on the rim is like throwing a fastball over and over and over. Repeated sliders hurt me way more than repeated fastballs.
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  #26  
Old 06-24-2022, 05:13 PM
hisdudeness47 hisdudeness47 is offline
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Love this graphic! Saved. I was two finger a while back and couldn't figure out why I couldn't throw a forehand with natural flights and without pain. It was all the karate chop. Did not work for me. I've moved to stacked (and hammering the nail) and I'm getting much more success with less pain. I'd actually say I'm pushing towards power. That bent index on top of the middle feels great.

The split finger is insane. I don't know how people hold discs like that. Does not compute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
See this graphic I don't particularly care for, but it works. But that's mainly because I don't know anyone who uses the "stacked" vs the "power" they are demonstrating here. Most everyone uses the "power" here and calls it stacked. In my experience anyways.

The 2 finger grip its demonstrating a lot of people use. It doesn't allow for proper wrist movement during the throw and puts pressure on your hand in really odd ways.

The stacked grip (power in the graphic) is the normal grip which a lot of people use.
They generally use the two finger or some version of a stacked.

Both have their benefits
I actually have a very specific throw I do where I use a two finger fan grip, which isn't even shown in this graphic.

The stacked style grips promote good wrist movement and allow you to use your hand to properly apply power into the disc with how your joints are designed to work.
While the two finger does not.

So, to draw back to the original topic of the thread.
"serving the pizza" (which is the dumbest thing i've ever heard)

If you're throwing a stacked style grip, you do not want to try and "serve the pizza" like scott is talking about.

If you're throwing a 2 finger style grip with your palm up to the plate. You need to serve the pizza.
Otherwise you'll be rolling your wrist and creating OAT.




I don't think people really put much thought into it honestly.
I hate my brain works this way and I wish I could just throw discs watch go woosh. But I'm thinking about far more than that.

Simply putting a disc in the 2 finger grip and grabbing the disc and flexing it back into your hand like it would see stress in the throw, you should be able to feel the strain all throughout your hand into your wrist just doing that.

Last edited by hisdudeness47; 06-24-2022 at 05:16 PM.
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  #27  
Old 06-24-2022, 05:51 PM
Skervoy Skervoy is offline
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Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
People give hokom crap over her "weird form" but she's throwing with her body mostly.

But in all honesty, forehands are tough on your body vs a backhand. I had a discussion with Ricky about it a while back. I was showing him how to play the course here for the tournament and we started talking about forehands because it required a forehand shot.



In all honesty to put this bluntly. Don't defend stupidity because what they are doing is working for "that" moment.
Eagles forehand was amazing in the results, but what he was doing to achieve that result was really really really bad. You could see him hyper extend his joints during his forehands. To which some people were like "Well, yeah, he's flexable."

Hyperextending joints damages them over time the more you do it. That's why defending his forehand is kinda dumb to be doing. We can marvel at it as the train slowly wrecks.



None of us are doctors and can legit make broad statements like these. However, yes, its very easy to damage the shoulder or the elbow. But I think you forget that our body isn't single joints acting independently of each other. Strain in your hand can have affects in your neck, elbow, shoulder, wrist. Just like your feet can cause you back or neck pain.

A lot of people use that grip, and they do it successfully. Does it mean its wrong? Maybe. Or right? Maybe.
But we can easily look at how the body movies and take some time to work and teach in ways that put less strain on peoples bodies vs teaching them something based on "well, everyone does it and it doesn't bother me." When that could actually cause them issues over time.

That's the whole point of coaching/teaching. Helping people not injure themselves. It's really the base line part of being a coach for any sport. Helping people do better to avoid injury and be more successful.


I can agree that if the end result is the same the stacked on rim is the prefered way both mechanically and safety wise. But still the common knowledge is that poor form creates shoulder injuries, never have I seen a reference to a sit out because of finger problems from a forehand.

I also agree that longevity should be a very high goal on the list of focus, especially amateurs, a pro getting an edge it can be more of a risk vs reward discussion but for weekend warriors healty is highest priority.


In the end the side stacked grip will be inferior in generating power so either a person wants better distance and will most likely stack them on the rim or they are content at using the forehand as utility and then it really wont matter as much.
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  #28  
Old 06-24-2022, 06:01 PM
BillFleming BillFleming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
See this graphic I don't particularly care for, but it works. But that's mainly because I don't know anyone who uses the "stacked" vs the "power" they are demonstrating here. Most everyone uses the "power" here and calls it stacked. In my experience anyways.
.
I did the "stacked" grip they show in the diagram. Did it for a long time, but lately I'm trying the "power" grip and seeing a bit of improvement.

The "stacked" grip (middle finger on the rim, pointer finger on the middle finger) is close to a one-finger grip. The middle finger does the majority of the work and the first finger is 'along for the ride'. The "power" grip (pointer finger and middle finger on the rim) seems to have less "finger" on the rim, but provides more power. At least it seems that way to me.
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  #29  
Old 06-24-2022, 07:32 PM
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Sheep Sheep is offline
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Originally Posted by BillFleming View Post
I wasn't defending stupidity or anything else. I was just making a comment that Eagle's injury was due to him doing that 360 throw which he had never done before. Sidewinder22 pointed out that Eagle had issues before then, which I wasn't aware of. But believe me, I was not defending stupidity....I thought Eagle's 360 forehand for Jomez was the height of stupidity....doing a throw you've never done before just for a video when you depend on the health of your body for your career.
Sorry, as I said, it was a bit blunt, it wasn't an attack, I apologize if you took it in that fashion. A lot of people out there were defending Eagles forehand despite how stupid of strain he was putting his body through and not using their brain, but defending the results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hisdudeness47 View Post
The split finger is insane. I don't know how people hold discs like that. Does not compute.
right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillFleming View Post
I did the "stacked" grip they show in the diagram. Did it for a long time, but lately I'm trying the "power" grip and seeing a bit of improvement.

The "stacked" grip (middle finger on the rim, pointer finger on the middle finger) is close to a one-finger grip. The middle finger does the majority of the work and the first finger is 'along for the ride'. The "power" grip (pointer finger and middle finger on the rim) seems to have less "finger" on the rim, but provides more power. At least it seems that way to me.
Way easier to get spin on the disc which the forehand already lacks.

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  #30  
Old 06-24-2022, 08:17 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by hisdudeness47 View Post
The split finger is insane. I don't know how people hold discs like that. Does not compute.
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Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
right?
Feels like a fastball grip to me. It's how I naturally gripped the disc first time.

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