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  #151  
Old 12-02-2021, 06:04 PM
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I think you have too much slack and lag - lack of external shoulder rotation in backswing. This is front foot strike, Rick is well into his throw already.


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  #152  
Old 12-02-2021, 11:31 PM
pjsb1 pjsb1 is offline
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Definitely seems like I lost some external shoulder rotation when I was making sure to keep the disc out away from my body/head. Thanks for the advice, I'll work on keeping the shoulder externally rotated. It seems like if I relax my shoulders and stand tall then I can end up with my disc behind my head if I rotate my shoulder externally. However, if I keep my shoulders forward and somewhat hunched then I am physically incapable of getting the disc behind my head while rotating my shoulder externally. Definitely excited to play around with this tomorrow.
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  #153  
Old 01-26-2022, 12:03 AM
pjsb1 pjsb1 is offline
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Ok I've looked back at some old advice I was given (by Schusterick, in my first post) and I realized that on my backhand I had my upper body way ahead of my lower body so that when I would push off my back leg and I wasn't moving my whole body into the throw together. I would just let the momentum of the run-up move my body into the throw and it wasn't synced with my lower body. This would explain why last year (late 2020 actually...) for a short time I had success throwing from feet together. I would naturally keep my whole body over my left leg until I planted, then I would drive off the back leg/use my hips and finally, I'd drive the elbow.

For forehands, I realized that my throwing shoulder should make as wide an arc as possible, so I should keep it as far away from my body as I can. This wide arc would give more space for my arm to accelerate, and it would also explain how someone like Dylan Horst can reach back up and then instantly when he plants his arm comes directly to the side. By simultaneously doing a "pulling down" motion with your arm but also swinging your shoulder as wide as you can you're accelerating your arm using the sudden whip from your hip/shoulder separation and the plant. That instant that he's able to get his arm from up to the side is his instant acceleration into the throw.


The ground was not ideal for throwing backhands but I wanted to record a video badly:
https://youtu.be/tujyfZQY6N0

Dylan slow-mo forehand for reference: https://youtu.be/w5w_Ue3HRhw
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  #154  
Old 01-26-2022, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by pjsb1 View Post
Ok I've looked back at some old advice I was given (by Schusterick, in my first post) and I realized that on my backhand I had my upper body way ahead of my lower body so that when I would push off my back leg and I wasn't moving my whole body into the throw together. I would just let the momentum of the run-up move my body into the throw and it wasn't synced with my lower body. This would explain why last year (late 2020 actually...) for a short time I had success throwing from feet together. I would naturally keep my whole body over my left leg until I planted, then I would drive off the back leg/use my hips and finally, I'd drive the elbow.
Not sure I agree with that. Throughout your x-step your upper body is leaning back behind your lower body and so you tip over back and forth, so it's all relative to when/where and really the byproduct from poor balance and posture from the beginning. I do agree with Will that your hips are open when you plant and you are still doing that, so your hips are actually too far ahead rotationally, or never getting back properly - you aren't getting the Buttwipe move either bh or fh("The Hips" thread in post 2).

1st pic - I really don't like the knee bend/butt out there in the setup. Note how Eagle is just standing straight up and relaxed, zero knee bend until movement begins with the CoG tipping forward.
2nd pic - Note how your CoG is further back landing on right foot.
3rd pic - Note how your CoG is behind your right foot leaving left foot and right knee is pigeon toed or buckled inward.


1st pic - Note how your CoG is behind your right foot and your right hip is behind your right knee. Note how Dylan's CoG is leveraged forward on the right foot and his right hip is buttwiped ahead of the knee.
2nd pic - Note how you have over-rotated and collapsed the front knee past the ankle.



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  #155  
Old 01-26-2022, 01:41 PM
pjsb1 pjsb1 is offline
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Image gallery of people who throw far and me.
https://imgur.com/a/0vTgWO6

I think I may have thrown myself off looking at this stage of the throw? I'm not sure. If I'm not doing the buttwipe on backhand then I truly don't understand how to do it. The ground was a little muddy so I my plant foot was slipping out from under me without bracing fully but it still looked like my left butt cheek was pushed back and then my right after my heel comes down. To be honest this is the most confused I've ever been from your advice, when I changed to keeping my upper body more over my back leg I became so much more accurate and didn't lose any distance. I wasn't expecting this response.

I threw some more today but I feel like I'm just missing something fundamental with the hips? I really don't know. The advice about keeping my COG forward is really easy to do, but all it does it make me inaccurate so I'm not sure what I should be working on.

The forehand stuff all makes sense to me, I got a little sloppy while I was focusing on my upper body.
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  #156  
Old 01-26-2022, 01:59 PM
pjsb1 pjsb1 is offline
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Is this what you're talking about with the early hips? I turn my left hip in before my heel is fully on the ground?

https://imgur.com/a/Jx41CN1
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  #157  
Old 01-26-2022, 06:00 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjsb1 View Post
Is this what you're talking about with the early hips? I turn my left hip in before my heel is fully on the ground?

https://imgur.com/a/Jx41CN1
Yes, because it's not turning back deeper or being pushed back deeper as you get into weird positions from being off balance.

Your first step is reaching out ahead of your CoG fall and leg drive. It looks like you are stomping on the brake pedal instead of trying to flow into the next step. Most people don't walk that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mIq15Ra3X0#t=3m55s

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  #158  
Old 01-28-2022, 02:45 AM
pjsb1 pjsb1 is offline
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Man, I'm still really confused by this, I don't know what weird positions in my throw you're talking about that are hurting my ability to use my hips. I've just tried to work on my walking in this video and tried not to let my left hip go too early. My off arm got wacky but that's just what happens sometimes.

https://youtu.be/o9NQB8n1aaw

Here's my forehand, cleaned up the lower body some and tried to work on making my reachback not so extreme. My arm swing still seems off somehow, like I'm actively bringing my shoulder in(?) as I throw instead of letting my arm whip.

https://youtu.be/jBNTSR9XBQo

I've grabbed a still of myself and Dylan throwing forehand where I have brought shoulder forward/in/closed (I'm not sure what to call it) and Dylan has kept his shoulder back https://imgur.com/a/0QrFp0t
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  #159  
Old 01-28-2022, 05:24 AM
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IIRC you said you are not naturally pigeon toed, but you keep doing it, so IDK seems weird to me.

FH looks like you are trying to lead with the elbow too much and disconnected from rest of body, front leg still collapses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2eWfwpahfk#t=5m33s

1. Note your left leg is pigeon toed, Simon's knees are pointed out like ballerina.
2. Note your left foot plants too backward and your right foot leads the stride instead of CoG. Note how Simon is leveraged inside his rear foot more lateral.
3. Note how backward you plant so your right hip lands over/past your knee, and your backswing goes kind of high. Simon is braced up more laterally - hip behind knee behind ankle like a running back that wants to reverse direction.
4. Note your front foot is rolled over with all the pressure jammed up into it. Simon has pivoted foot releasing pressure.
5. Note how you rise straight up in finish and your right shoulder(and heel) has backed away and left shoulder stops short. Simon flows through pivoting effortlessly into the bowling finish.
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  #160  
Old 01-28-2022, 01:34 PM
lostDoughnut lostDoughnut is offline
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additional info**


because of the position of your left foot shown below your body cant coil (you are not able to build as much tension) as much as we would like (redline kinda shows a better position of where the toes could point)
foot placement.jpg

link below will show you a drill that will also get you a feeling of what being coiled feels like. and how you are loosing the tension based on where your toe is pointed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio#t=6m5s

if you do the drill you will get the feeling of being coiled up. if you do the drill and move your left foot so the toe points where the red arrow goes you will loose the feeling of being coiled up. it took me awhile to get this drill but i believe when you feel a tenseness feeling of the muscles in the area where i circled thats a part of the feeling of being coiled up correctly. if you get this tense feeling and if you pick up your left foots toe. because of the tenseness of the muscles your foot should rotate counter clockwise as it uncoils the tension in the muscles.
redline3.jpg
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