#11  
Old 01-19-2022, 01:38 PM
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dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
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Originally Posted by jenb View Post
Wasn’t the Mako originally released only in premium plastic? The original Mako is out of production?

If the extra dome made them too OS, but the flat top makes them have more stability, does that mean the 3s are are more stable because they are less overstable? That seems like a weird and confusing way to put it if that’s the case, and it contradicts the numbers given above for the two versions of the mako. Plus, usually when a disc is caused to be faster, it becomes more overstable, not less. I have a hard time believing the mako was made faster but the fade did not increase.

everyone so far in the thread has used the convention of more stability meaning more overstable.

because stable does not mean neutral
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  #12  
Old 01-19-2022, 01:45 PM
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GripEnemy GripEnemy is offline
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Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post
everyone so far in the thread has used the convention of more stability meaning more overstable.

because stable does not mean neutral
Ugh, sorry in advance. Hate this discussion.

Stable doesn't mean neutral, no. I'm with you there. It also doesn't mean overstable. To Prerube or not to Prerube . . .

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  #13  
Old 01-19-2022, 02:00 PM
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i hate that it has to happen

of course it doesn't mean overstable either because it's not a category. stability is a continuum not a set of 3 (or more) categories.

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  #14  
Old 01-19-2022, 02:14 PM
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i hate that it has to happen
It doesn't have to happen, we control our own destiny.

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  #15  
Old 01-19-2022, 02:22 PM
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GripEnemy GripEnemy is offline
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Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post
i hate that it has to happen

of course it doesn't mean overstable either because it's not a category. stability is a continuum not a set of 3 (or more) categories.
Set of 3. What you did there...I see it

I'll walk away, maybe if I'm feeling feisty later I'll change my mind. Enjoy your thread, y'all.

/Grip

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Old 01-19-2022, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jenb View Post
So I noticed recently I can’t by a Mako, just a Mako3. And there are Roc3s and who knows what else. Someone told me they are flat tops? Someone else said faster? Flat top rocs have been around a long time. I didn’t like them because they seemed to have less glide to me. So what’s going on here and why is it a 3? Was there a 2? What’s going on?
When I try to not over-explain it, I tell people the 3 versions are faster with less glide. If you are a power player, you want the more pinpoint control of a disc with less glide. The faster offsets any distance loss from the less glide, so power players get a disc they can throw just as far with more accuracy.

If you are not a power thrower? Eh...you lose distance from the lower glide. They can also be more OS so shorter with more fade. So throw hard? 3 version is prolly your thing. Weenie arm? Avoid 3 versions.

That's a gross oversimplification and doesn't account for all the disc (I've thrown TL's and TL3's and can't tell a single difference in the flight) but if you want to keep it simple, that's the simple cliff's notes.

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  #17  
Old 01-19-2022, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenb View Post
Wasn’t the Mako originally released only in premium plastic? The original Mako is out of production?

If the extra dome made them too OS, but the flat top makes them have more stability, does that mean the 3s are are more stable because they are less overstable? That seems like a weird and confusing way to put it if that’s the case, and it contradicts the numbers given above for the two versions of the mako. Plus, usually when a disc is caused to be faster, it becomes more overstable, not less. I have a hard time believing the mako was made faster but the fade did not increase.
Sure, Mako being released in premium plastic gets it moved into the group with the RocX/Wombat as discs that weren't popular enough (for Innova) to keep around with the bigger dome. Coyote/Mako/Lycan/MD all share some lineage/mold pieces and didn't mold up mid-low profile consistently so they are all OOP now.

Dave Dunipace has talked a few times about the history of the 3 series and Roc3
https://www.innovadiscs.com/disc-gol...iscs-have-a-3/

-DGU short blog about them (references the above podcast + some brief history)
https://discgolfunited.com/blog/post...3-series-discs

-mentions the Roc3 as being a straighter Roc in this video ~3:30


Flat/Lower dome = Increased flight speed (lower profile) + increased torque resistance (more RPMs = more neutral/straighter) + less glide

I think the original's flight numbers are mostly based on the plastic they were introduced with. Since DX shrinks more in the cooling process, the rim widths are slightly wider with the premium plastics = slightly higher 'speed' rating.

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Last edited by @CD-; 01-19-2022 at 04:31 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-20-2022, 01:04 AM
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dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
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Originally Posted by discerdoo View Post
It doesn't have to happen, we control our own destiny.

what, and allow someone to be wrong on the internet? good heavens, no


but see, it's already over. i'm with Grip, this thread is handled anyway. /out

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Old 01-20-2022, 08:42 AM
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Just want to chime in incase anybody has any thoughts about the 3 series having slightly wider rims than the '1' series they're based on. Multiple times I had little quibbles on reddit with people who thought the 3 series had slightly larger rims. One person even showed me a picture of their calibers demonstrating a Leopard3 to have a larger rim than a Leopard.

I borrowed my dad's Mitutoyo micrometer (multi-hundred dollar product, only measures up to 1 inch with .001mm resolution.). I took a couple Leopards and Leopard 3s of mine, then I took several Teebirds and Teebird3s. The verdict? The rims are between the Leopard and Teebirds are all around the same size. Super tiny differences were present as I move the measuring rods around the molds, but they all hit a general neighborhood of accuracy.


Also, even though one of the original intentions for the 3 series might have been more torque resistance, I can't really agree that it's a guarantee for all 3 discs. As an example, plenty runs of Teebird3s and TL3s I find slightly less HSS than their non 3 counterparts. It really all depends on how they mold up at that time, and of course the plastic used affects that to a great degree. I also have a domey Mako3 and a flat Mako-- go figure.
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  #20  
Old 01-20-2022, 09:07 AM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenb View Post
Wasn’t the Mako originally released only in premium plastic? The original Mako is out of production?

If the extra dome made them too OS, but the flat top makes them have more stability, does that mean the 3s are are more stable because they are less overstable? That seems like a weird and confusing way to put it if that’s the case, and it contradicts the numbers given above for the two versions of the mako. Plus, usually when a disc is caused to be faster, it becomes more overstable, not less. I have a hard time believing the mako was made faster but the fade did not increase.
It's much more about hand feel then stability. Lot's of people don't like the feel of the domey discs. They also might like a little less glide for a little more distance control.

The Mako is also very very straight disc. Very blunt and slow design, basically a putter in a midrange body. The dome or lack of dome is going to effect speed and glide more then the stability of the flight.

More dome usually also equals more fade, not less, because the dome is allowing the disc to slow down more, glide more and simply have more time to fade. The flatter disc will want to get to the ground quicker, get to the target quicker, just have less time to fade.
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