Whip vs Swing

[SocraDeez]

Originally Posted by navel

The big difference lies in where and how the shoulder lever is leveraged.

The rest of the body adjusts accordingly, or vice versa. (One example being that the throwing elbow stays bent when levering the shoulder high, as pointed out before.) The lower arm will follow gravity when relaxed and that's why a higher reach back seems to "fall down" on the swing path with the elbow bent, while a low reach back seems to be pulled up on the swing path with an extended throwing arm.

This seems to be related to internal/external shoulder rotation preferences too, right? Some prefer peak reach back with the lead shoulder external and others internal.

By internal, I mean: the position your shoulder is in if you were to place the palm of your hand square on your cheeseburger locker, or belly. By external, I mean: the position your shoulder is in if you were to efficiently high five 20 fourth graders in a line while wishing them a good game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the lead shoulder needs to go from a relative internal to relative external position during the final part of the throw. The trail shoulder generally does the opposite, similar to how they trade positions when you walk forward. For example, consider how the swim move internally rotates the trail shoulder.

Even for the externally rotated lead shoulder at peak reach back players, it rolls to internal during the swing and then back to external during release. So some players are: external>internal>external and some are internal>external.

This has been a big hurdle for me personally. I reach back low w/ internal rotation of the lead shoulder and then externally rotate it much too soon during the lateral shift/ vertical drop into the front side of the swing frame. This causes my elbow to drop below the wrist and the wing to pop up toward my chin while the disc is in the pocket and almost every throw is a bit nose up.

Probably falls under the umbrella of rounding. I'll fix it one day, and then sorely miss the pretty flight paths of my putters off the tee.

[Brychanus]

Originally Posted by SocraDeez

Even for the externally rotated lead shoulder at peak reach back players, it rolls to internal during the swing and then back to external during release. So some players are: external>internal>external and some are internal>external.

This has been a big hurdle for me personally. I reach back low w/ internal rotation of the lead shoulder and then externally rotate it much too soon during the lateral shift/ vertical drop into the front side of the swing frame.

I feel you. I had a very severe case of this until recently. I'm sure it's still cropping up in some of my throws. It took a lot of hammer swings & forcing the disc flight plate to be parallel to the ground in the backswing. If I hit the backswing right it tends to more naturally follow a better path. I even toyed a bit with the pronating style that players like GG and Simon used and my swing path is landing somewhere in the middle. In my case early external rotation was putting a lot of strain on my right pec and anterior shoulder. It's still there to an extent and it's frustrating how long it can take to override habits!

[azplaya25]

Nice write up. I’d say Cale is an example of a “whipper”

Navel posted in another thread about stirring a pot with a spoon to get a feel for how the disc should feel in this type of throw. At first I thought he was crazy until I tried it. Had to change the alignment of the disc to get it to work. If you watch Cale throw he really is holding the disc like its a spoon :

[sidewinder22]

Originally Posted by azplaya25

Nice write up. I’d say Cale is an example of a “whipper”

Navel posted in another thread about stirring a pot with a spoon to get a feel for how the disc should feel in this type of throw. At first I thought he was crazy until I tried it. Had to change the alignment of the disc to get it to work. If you watch Cale throw he really is holding the disc like its a spoon :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Awpyw2k3QM&t=2m42s

[azplaya25]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Awpyw2k3QM&t=2m42s

Omg. I always wondered what in the world you were doing with those cups but not spilling the beverage feels exactly like stirring the spoon. With the benefit of forcing you to be smooth like dr smooth himself. Nice!

[azplaya25]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

Yeah nose is there about. I just focus on my thumb, it controls everything with the disc. Thumb pointed at target line apex, then nose is going to be pointed line apex.

Something like Banger GTs and Comets are the best way to learn this IMO. Flippy drivers like Roadrunners and 150g Bosses.

I prefer to swing more like a pendulum back and forth because it flattens everything out more than bending everything in and out. The angles are much less extreme than the Seppo way which IMO introduces a lot more variable and harder on joints.

I’m this exchange with slowplastic, are you explaining why you prefer the “swing” vs the “whip.” I definitely find that Seppo method creates more extreme angles and feels like it could be harder on the arm in the long run.