#51  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:33 PM
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Hampstead Hampstead is online now
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Originally Posted by Coldpunk View Post
Got any proof of that? I keep hearing people mention that, but I’ve never seen anything from the pdga about it. Just lots of folks repeating things they heard from a guy who had heard from someone else.
Found this quote from Dave that somebody posted back in 2013. The person posted it from a mobile device and apologized for the typos.


Quote:
Dave:
I think the discussion on e dgcr is rather inaccurate and getting out of control.


no discs of ours that are pdga approved have been considered illegal by the pdga.
jeff Homburg ( who represents the pdga for tec standards testing) emailed me that a run of our discs (G9i) was too stiff and we volunteered to stop selling both g9i and mediums in all models for now.


as you and the rest of the players know theres more innova drivers that do not pass the pdga tech standards for flex out there than all other companies "legal" discs combined in play at most pdga events.

the only 2 mens open players i know of that won pdga worlds championships or usdgc without a firm putter and approach in the least 23 years ( that didnt pass pdga tech standards were ron russell and eric McCabe). everyone else had firm putters. its possible Nate doss may not have used too firm discs but i think he had really firm magnets at some point.

Its true the g9i's were pretty stiff,,we are just trying to give customers what they want.
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  #52  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:44 PM
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tbird888 tbird888 is offline
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Thank you Hampy. I knew it was out there but couldn't find it.

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  #53  
Old 06-26-2019, 09:40 AM
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Coldpunk Coldpunk is offline
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Your google skills are superior to mine! I’ve been looking for that quote for a few years. Thank you!!!

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  #54  
Old 06-28-2019, 10:14 AM
mistabman mistabman is offline
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Originally Posted by RunnerUp View Post
Wizards are out for delivery! I'll send a pic later and let you guys know what I went with. Thanks for all the help everyone!
Have you had a chance to check them out yet?

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  #55  
Old 06-29-2019, 10:11 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Originally Posted by Coldpunk View Post
Got any proof of that? I keep hearing people mention that, but I’ve never seen anything from the pdga about it. Just lots of folks repeating things they heard from a guy who had heard from someone else.
I just know the local club doing a PDGA event did not allow a player to use his G9-i wizard in the last PDGA tournament the Josh Wishard Memorial, did allow the guys PWP and that is the same guy I gave my G9-i Wizard too. The one guy running the events Now just takes a precautionary on discs like this ever since he became religious and preachy about rules after almost getting struck by lighting. That is unless the Packers are on TV at the time church is, then he will not go to church. However he is not preachy about religion to others and he knows to accept other faiths too including not liking church.
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  #56  
Old 06-29-2019, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
I just know the local club doing a PDGA event did not allow a player to use his G9-i wizard in the last PDGA tournament the Josh Wishard Memorial, did allow the guys PWP and that is the same guy I gave my G9-i Wizard too. The one guy running the events Now just takes a precautionary on discs like this ever since he became religious and preachy about rules after almost getting struck by lighting. That is unless the Packers are on TV at the time church is, then he will not go to church. However he is not preachy about religion to others and he knows to accept other faiths too including not liking church.
Where are the hidden cameras? You got me...
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  #57  
Old 06-29-2019, 11:52 PM
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I also could have went with, No Wizard at the Wishard.
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  #58  
Old 06-30-2019, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
I just know the local club doing a PDGA event did not allow a player to use his G9-i wizard in the last PDGA tournament the Josh Wishard Memorial, did allow the guys PWP and that is the same guy I gave my G9-i Wizard too. The one guy running the events Now just takes a precautionary on discs like this ever since he became religious and preachy about rules after almost getting struck by lighting. That is unless the Packers are on TV at the time church is, then he will not go to church. However he is not preachy about religion to others and he knows to accept other faiths too including not liking church.

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  #59  
Old 07-02-2019, 02:15 PM
RunnerUp RunnerUp is offline
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Originally Posted by mistabman View Post
Have you had a chance to check them out yet?
Yes! Sorry for the delayed follow up! I took some time to play a few rounds and do some field work before responding... This thing has turned into a novel, so sorry about that. I figured everyone deserved some interesting feedback though considering the thoughtful responses I got.

As for my purchase decision, I followed advice from a lot of the group here:

Treeknuckle:
"To be super duper honest, your probably gonna like the plastic as long as you don't get any of the multiple S plastic blends. (Super Stinkin Soft, SSSS, etc.)"

lines:
"My favorite putting putters are erasers and organics. They both have a rubbery/velvety touch to them (organics can differ)."

xare:
"I would recommend trying a Firm (relabel of Soft), SuperSoft, $ (Money), Organic, Special Blend, and Eraser Wizards. I know it's a lot, but once you figure out which one of these you like the best - it is super easy to stock up on them."

mistabman:
"From your description, I'd say start with a stack of 5 different plastics/blends. My recommendation would be PW, stiff eraser, organic, firm, and SS."

midairmatthew:
"I think you'd dig the red Firm Nikko Wizards. I've also found swirly gray OG to be about what you're looking for"

From the suggestions I sort of gravitated toward eraser and OG. I really liked the look (yes, just the look) of the gray OG's and went for it... after carting those and an eraser I said what the heck and picked a few more based on the "try a few" bit of advice. The attached pics are the fresh lute, which include the following (in order of my unboxing inspection):

(3) Gray Swirly OG - I really like these! The mold feels more "substantial" than my aviars, partly because of the weight, but the mold itself feels better in my hand (very subjective statement). The plastic is much grippier than my FR pro aviar, which is "a lot" grippier than my KC pros to begin with (a lot in quotes because this was my feeling pre-wizard). Compared to the other plastics, the OG is a bit "slicker" but I would describe as more "velvet" than "slick".

(1) Green/Blue $ - After grabbing this one I thought "oh no, I might like this grip better!" Very similar to the OG, especially during my initial quick fawning over each disc. Definitely more firm than OG but not overly by any means.

(1) Eraser Color Eraser - Very similar to the others, maybe a hair less tacky in grip and about the same as the $ in terms of firmness.

(1) Pink SSSS - I grabbed this one thinking it would give me an idea of the other end of the softness spectrum and I'm glad I did! Honestly if I had just grabbed a stack of these and nothing else I'd probably be happy with them. They are definitely softer, but my main quam with the FR Pro Aviar is that the flight plate has a lot of give and it flexes just by holding the disc flat. This may be because its over 10 years old, but I wanted to get away from that either way. Even the SSSS is fairly rigid. You can tell the difference obviously when you start grabbing the other plastics, but its not what the name suggests to the first timer.

So, how about backyard testing:
Surprisingly, the weight bump compared to the Aviars was the biggest difference initially (171-ish to 174 marked weights). My first 5 putts hit the pole I think. I was surprised at such a difference! But I chose the heavier weight because I wanted to try something that felt more reliable, even if it ment I had to give it a bit more juice. Its hard to say definitively that the Aviars have a little more glide considering the weight difference, but it does seem that way.

As for the flight shape, I have found that I can put a bit of hyzer angle on the Wizards without much resulting lateral movement. Its very tolerant of variations in release angle, which makes it more consistent for me. This also agrees with my hunch that they have a little less glide than the Aviar, since glide would cause the disc to push side to side more. While I said earlier in this thread that I was hoping the Wizard had more glide, I didn't know what I was missing! Having the ability to release on a bit of hyzer and still aim at the pole is a game changer for me. With the Avair I have to commit 100% to the release angle because its going to go that way. This resulted in trying to release the disc perfectly flat and aiming dead at the pin. Easy said, but I was often missing weak side because of small amounts of hyzer... then, trying to compensate, I start releasing with some anyhzer and all the sudden I'm playing rock paper scissors with the basket. Add variations in putt lengths and the lateral movement varies as well... Not desirable if you ask me.

On to the first round:
I could say like everyone else that as soon as I put the Wizard in the bag I had my best round ever (because I did), but it wasn't because of the Wizard... I was just parking drives. In fact my putting was bad. At that point I was still putting like I was with the Aviar - flat and hard at the pin. This was actually worse because I was having to really put a lot on the disc just to get it there. I've since found a slight hyzer with a little more loft - more aiming to land in the basket than trying to smash the chains - is a much more repeatable approach.

One thing I did notice (again, putting like I did at the time) is on long putts I really needed to turn to my Darts to get to the pin. I couldn't get the Wizard up over the basket from 50ft (throwing flat and straight). It will be fun to see how the loftier hyzer approach will work out for circle 2 putts moving forward.

In the field:
And this is getting long! I'll keep it short here, but I was shocked this morning to find out I can get an easy 250' with these things, even using a fan grip! This is where the glide theory may be off... but it may just be that the Wizard handles the torque really well for a putter. I mean, I really ripped into a few and got them out to 300 even. If you're wonding about internet distance, I actually brought out a 300' tape measure and I was reaching the end of it. Oh, and I'm not sure about the difference between plastics here. The flights were the same, though the eraser and $ ended up further down the tape for one reason or another. Could just be because I was throwing the OG's first and cranking a little more on the last few.

In summary, I'm really liking this disc. I think that's pretty clear. Its in the bag and will be for a long time. Thanks so much for everyone's input, this has been a really fun experiment! Up next will be some putter rounds with these bombers! haha.
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  #60  
Old 07-02-2019, 02:20 PM
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R-Ogre R-Ogre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnerUp View Post
Yes! Sorry for the delayed follow up! I took some time to play a few rounds and do some field work before responding... This thing has turned into a novel, so sorry about that. I figured everyone deserved some interesting feedback though considering the thoughtful responses I got.

As for my purchase decision, I followed advice from a lot of the group here:

Treeknuckle:
"To be super duper honest, your probably gonna like the plastic as long as you don't get any of the multiple S plastic blends. (Super Stinkin Soft, SSSS, etc.)"

lines:
"My favorite putting putters are erasers and organics. They both have a rubbery/velvety touch to them (organics can differ)."

xare:
"I would recommend trying a Firm (relabel of Soft), SuperSoft, $ (Money), Organic, Special Blend, and Eraser Wizards. I know it's a lot, but once you figure out which one of these you like the best - it is super easy to stock up on them."

mistabman:
"From your description, I'd say start with a stack of 5 different plastics/blends. My recommendation would be PW, stiff eraser, organic, firm, and SS."

midairmatthew:
"I think you'd dig the red Firm Nikko Wizards. I've also found swirly gray OG to be about what you're looking for"

From the suggestions I sort of gravitated toward eraser and OG. I really liked the look (yes, just the look) of the gray OG's and went for it... after carting those and an eraser I said what the heck and picked a few more based on the "try a few" bit of advice. The attached pics are the fresh lute, which include the following (in order of my unboxing inspection):

(3) Gray Swirly OG - I really like these! The mold feels more "substantial" than my aviars, partly because of the weight, but the mold itself feels better in my hand (very subjective statement). The plastic is much grippier than my FR pro aviar, which is "a lot" grippier than my KC pros to begin with (a lot in quotes because this was my feeling pre-wizard). Compared to the other plastics, the OG is a bit "slicker" but I would describe as more "velvet" than "slick".

(1) Green/Blue $ - After grabbing this one I thought "oh no, I might like this grip better!" Very similar to the OG, especially during my initial quick fawning over each disc. Definitely more firm than OG but not overly by any means.

(1) Eraser Color Eraser - Very similar to the others, maybe a hair less tacky in grip and about the same as the $ in terms of firmness.

(1) Pink SSSS - I grabbed this one thinking it would give me an idea of the other end of the softness spectrum and I'm glad I did! Honestly if I had just grabbed a stack of these and nothing else I'd probably be happy with them. They are definitely softer, but my main quam with the FR Pro Aviar is that the flight plate has a lot of give and it flexes just by holding the disc flat. This may be because its over 10 years old, but I wanted to get away from that either way. Even the SSSS is fairly rigid. You can tell the difference obviously when you start grabbing the other plastics, but its not what the name suggests to the first timer.

So, how about backyard testing:
Surprisingly, the weight bump compared to the Aviars was the biggest difference initially (171-ish to 174 marked weights). My first 5 putts hit the pole I think. I was surprised at such a difference! But I chose the heavier weight because I wanted to try something that felt more reliable, even if it ment I had to give it a bit more juice. Its hard to say definitively that the Aviars have a little more glide considering the weight difference, but it does seem that way.

As for the flight shape, I have found that I can put a bit of hyzer angle on the Wizards without much resulting lateral movement. Its very tolerant of variations in release angle, which makes it more consistent for me. This also agrees with my hunch that they have a little less glide than the Aviar, since glide would cause the disc to push side to side more. While I said earlier in this thread that I was hoping the Wizard had more glide, I didn't know what I was missing! Having the ability to release on a bit of hyzer and still aim at the pole is a game changer for me. With the Avair I have to commit 100% to the release angle because its going to go that way. This resulted in trying to release the disc perfectly flat and aiming dead at the pin. Easy said, but I was often missing weak side because of small amounts of hyzer... then, trying to compensate, I start releasing with some anyhzer and all the sudden I'm playing rock paper scissors with the basket. Add variations in putt lengths and the lateral movement varies as well... Not desirable if you ask me.

On to the first round:
I could say like everyone else that as soon as I put the Wizard in the bag I had my best round ever (because I did), but it wasn't because of the Wizard... I was just parking drives. In fact my putting was bad. At that point I was still putting like I was with the Aviar - flat and hard at the pin. This was actually worse because I was having to really put a lot on the disc just to get it there. I've since found a slight hyzer with a little more loft - more aiming to land in the basket than trying to smash the chains - is a much more repeatable approach.

One thing I did notice (again, putting like I did at the time) is on long putts I really needed to turn to my Darts to get to the pin. I couldn't get the Wizard up over the basket from 50ft (throwing flat and straight). It will be fun to see how the loftier hyzer approach will work out for circle 2 putts moving forward.

In the field:
And this is getting long! I'll keep it short here, but I was shocked this morning to find out I can get an easy 250' with these things, even using a fan grip! This is where the glide theory may be off... but it may just be that the Wizard handles the torque really well for a putter. I mean, I really ripped into a few and got them out to 300 even. If you're wonding about internet distance, I actually brought out a 300' tape measure and I was reaching the end of it. Oh, and I'm not sure about the difference between plastics here. The flights were the same, though the eraser and $ ended up further down the tape for one reason or another. Could just be because I was throwing the OG's first and cranking a little more on the last few.

In summary, I'm really liking this disc. I think that's pretty clear. Its in the bag and will be for a long time. Thanks so much for everyone's input, this has been a really fun experiment! Up next will be some putter rounds with these bombers! haha.
Good haul and review! Get on Gateways email list. Last Christmas they had a 10-pack of old stock putters for $50. Got 8 wizards in different flavors, a warlock, and a magic.

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