#81  
Old 08-03-2019, 02:38 PM
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Halcón Halcón is offline
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Originally Posted by SonicGuy View Post
That may be the case. Or maybe our society punishes wrongthink so heavily that nobody would dare to voice opposition.
I don't know what "wrongthink" is, but there is definitely truth here. Look at what's happening to Mario Lopez.
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  #82  
Old 08-03-2019, 09:11 PM
Jsmithey Jsmithey is offline
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As a trans female Disc Golfer I feel that all divisions should be mixed and based off rating instead of gender and PDGA Rating is a genderless numbering system to begin with. A 950 FPO round is scored no differently than an MPO 950 round, so why not divide divisions based on rating example 750-850 850-950 950+? That being said if an individual meets the PDGA requirements for protected divisions a win is a win. The physical "advantages" of a trans Female are largely nullified by Hormones I've lost quite a percentage on muscle mass after taking hormones for 3 years despite being more active and working out more. If we are taking this to a purely physical standpoint lets just look at the top 10 DGWT standings. Paul McBeth is THE shortest and among the lightest on the list so he has no "advantages" over his fellow MPO competitors but he sits at number One. Now ask yourself if this sport is strictly based off physique how does this happen? I'd argue Paul's Advantage strictly is his devotion to the game. He has developed one of the strongest mental games is the sport. He knows when to play safe or be aggressive and overall is just the smartest golfer on the course on any given day. He is dedicated years to prefect his form and anyone who decides to do that deserves to be on top of their sport regardless of if you are a fan or not. Not sure if linking is allowed here but check out Semena Castor a mid distance Olympic champion or Michael Phelps or freaking Shaq for that matter. Physical advantages are something that exist within sports already and are not insurmountable by dedication to improving your game. People want an excuse as to why they lose it's always easy to say "He's taller than me" "She run's to fast" "She's built like a man"(a common one for Serena Williams) but these athletes are at the top of their sport because of dedication to their sport, always pushing themselves and their limits. Paige Pierce is also a prime example no body claims she has a physical advantage over her FPO counterparts when she crushes the division by 20 strokes they comment on her form her dedication to the sport and her drive to be the best. It only becomes a thing when people want an excuse or they have a bias of the way "things should be" So long story short Mix all divisions and base it solely on skill level instead of what someone has between their legs because that argument is old and outdated. Trans People are here to stay and they deserve a place in whatever sport they love.

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  #83  
Old 08-03-2019, 09:19 PM
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Monocacy Monocacy is offline
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I like the idea of mixed, ratings-based divisions. Then we can all get back to arguing about the ratings . . .

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  #84  
Old 08-03-2019, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsmithey View Post
So long story short Mix all divisions and base it solely on skill level instead of what someone has between their legs because that argument is old and outdated.
Nobody is making that argument.

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  #85  
Old 08-03-2019, 10:16 PM
Jsmithey Jsmithey is offline
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Originally Posted by AHagglund View Post
What a no-win situation for the PDGA.

Obviously this person didn't transition in order to win amateur FPO 40+ titles and we want her to be happy with herself, her life, and we want her to play disc golf since she enjoys it. But to suggest that being a man for the previous 39 years of her life didn't have any impact on her athletic achievement is ridiculous.
Also even "if" nobody is saying it directly what else could the opposing argument be about?
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  #86  
Old 08-03-2019, 10:53 PM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is online now
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There is physical advantages in disc golf, but this primarily only affects power/distance potential imop. The ape index/wing span athlete will have a natural advantage. Other body types will have to work harder, longer to achieve similar results.

Disclaimer: The following is a bit delicate in nature, I mean no disrespect to any current players male or female.

It is no secret the MPO side of the sport is transitioning to a longer, slender build without the muscle mass needed in other pro sports. How much of that body type in respect to athletic performance in disc golf, would be affected by a gender transition to female? Most people ignorant to the facts (myself included) would guess the player would have most if not all if their disc golf skills intact. It would be interesting to know the facts in this scenario.
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  #87  
Old 08-03-2019, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmithey View Post
Also even "if" nobody is saying it directly what else could the opposing argument be about?
Spending 39 out of 40 years presenting as a male.
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  #88  
Old 08-04-2019, 12:59 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is online now
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Originally Posted by lines View Post
Spending 39 out of 40 years presenting as a male.
If you're saying "what took you so long?" then perhaps that is a valid point for discussion. hmmm...

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  #89  
Old 08-04-2019, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roggenb3 View Post
This is 2019. Civil conversation died in like 1993.
September, 1994, actually. It hasn't ended, yet.
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  #90  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:49 AM
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wolfhaley wolfhaley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
There is physical advantages in disc golf, but this primarily only affects power/distance potential imop. The ape index/wing span athlete will have a natural advantage. Other body types will have to work harder, longer to achieve similar results.

Disclaimer: The following is a bit delicate in nature, I mean no disrespect to any current players male or female.

It is no secret the MPO side of the sport is transitioning to a longer, slender build without the muscle mass needed in other pro sports. How much of that body type in respect to athletic performance in disc golf, would be affected by a gender transition to female? Most people ignorant to the facts (myself included) would guess the player would have most if not all if their disc golf skills intact. It would be interesting to know the facts in this scenario.
I agree with the first part of this for sure but to an extent. Paul obviously proves this wrong but he is really the outlier. However Kevin Jones has been killing it this year too. Also double G isn't your Eagle/Simon/Ricky looking player either but is doing great. Seppo comes to mind too. But it does seem to be trending this direction for sure. With that being said I don't want to ruffle any feathers here but if the PDGA has guidelines and they're followed a win is a win correct? I mean I love the NFL but it's OK to pump these guys up on synthetic heroin to play the next game but suspend them for smoking weed. The world is ever evolving and moving forward. Some of us need to catch up IMO. Myself included. But everyone should be able to play disc golf and have fun. Nobody here is signing a Mcbeth deal, we do it for fun. All of us.

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