#171  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:03 AM
Suspect Suspect is offline
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If you don't feel like you are getting your moneys worth, don't join.

I feel lucky to love something like DG, because I spend countless hours on a cheap sport. If some of my entry fee gets put into Pros or goes to the park, I couldn't care less.


Just throwing it out there, what if AMs had a lesser payout due to less of an entry fee? That way everyone can win money. I like player packs, but I have enough stuff as it is haha.
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  #172  
Old 05-21-2019, 01:00 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by Suspect View Post
If you don't feel like you are getting your moneys worth, don't join.

I feel lucky to love something like DG, because I spend countless hours on a cheap sport. If some of my entry fee gets put into Pros or goes to the park, I couldn't care less.


Just throwing it out there, what if AMs had a lesser payout due to less of an entry fee? That way everyone can win money. I like player packs, but I have enough stuff as it is haha.
If ams paid less and therefore got less, even if nothing changed in the way of PDGA requirements and payout structures, I think the sport would be better off. The TDs and clubs that try to fund all their added cash via the margins on the am payout would have to either scale back their events (maybe run a B-tier instead of an A-tier) or do a bit more hustling for outside sponsors to make up the difference.

Pay $20 for $20-25 worth of player pack and payout contribution or pay $50 for $50-60 worth of player pack and payout contribution (plus the tournament experience, of course)...which is going to be more appealing to more am players? They both meet all PDGA requirements.

It blows my mind that there are amateur tournaments in this game charging anywhere close to $100 a head outside of major events like Worlds/USADGC. Just this past weekend there was a semi-local am-only A-tier with entries ranging from $125 for MA1 and $95 for junior divisions. They boasted an added value of $10,000. With that kind of sponsor support, I expect they could have cut the entries in half and filled the event (as it was, they did get 216 players which wasn't a sell out) with everyone still going home extremely happy with their ROI.

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  #173  
Old 05-21-2019, 01:56 PM
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ejvogie ejvogie is offline
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Originally Posted by araytx View Post
If the author of this post is from a different area of the country then I understand where he is coming from. The practice of seeding pro added cash with Am differential is pretty common elsewhere.
Aka TD profit. He can do with it what he pleases. Just the same as if he sold you a disc outright not in a tournament setting.

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  #174  
Old 05-21-2019, 02:13 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by scarpfish View Post
Lower entry fees and the option to forgo player's packs are an option the PDGA has made available. They're called C-tiers.

How about we quit blaming the PDGA for something that is the collective fault of the disc golf community for not thinking out of the box? Even unsanctioned events use the "Am scam" model to fund tourneys.
I think the OP is talking about something like a D?-tier. No players pack, no payout, but with as much of the entry fee going directly to the TD's pocket as needed to make it worth their time and effort.

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  #175  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:39 PM
cheesethin cheesethin is online now
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Originally Posted by ejvogie View Post
Aka TD profit. He can do with it what he pleases.
So what are the benefits and to whom, of seeding Pro purse with AM differential? Or put differently, why do TDs do it, what's the motivation? Not questioning their right to, or the morality of it - just interested as to why it is done?



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  #176  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:48 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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So what are the benefits and to whom, of seeding Pro purse with AM differential? Or put differently, why do TDs do it, what's the motivation? Not questioning their right to, or the morality of it - just interested as to why it is done?
About the same as using outside sponsorship, or club funds, or a TD pulling money out of his own pocket.

The benefits, to whom? Well, the top half of the pro field, of course.

The motivation? As Biscoe said somewhere, it's something between altruism and ego, that makes people want to run tournaments at all, and particularly to have pros attend.

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  #177  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:56 PM
Improbably Improbably is offline
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Originally Posted by scarpfish View Post
Lower entry fees and the option to forgo player's packs are an option the PDGA has made available. They're called C-tiers.

How about we quit blaming the PDGA for something that is the collective fault of the disc golf community for not thinking out of the box? Even unsanctioned events use the "Am scam" model to fund tourneys.
With a B-tier it's possible to offer a bargain event for $15-20 and fulfill the $10 minimum players pack requirement. Others have mentioned bargain C-tiers, has anyone done or heard of a bargain B-tier?

Taking it one step further an A-tier could work on paper for a $20-25 entry, but would the PDGA approve such unorthodoxy even if all requirements were met. . .
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  #178  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:20 PM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
I think the OP is talking about something like a D?-tier. No players pack, no payout, but with as much of the entry fee going directly to the TD's pocket as needed to make it worth their time and effort.
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  #179  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:35 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by Improbably View Post
With a B-tier it's possible to offer a bargain event for $15-20 and fulfill the $10 minimum players pack requirement. Others have mentioned bargain C-tiers, has anyone done or heard of a bargain B-tier?

Taking it one step further an A-tier could work on paper for a $20-25 entry, but would the PDGA approve such unorthodoxy even if all requirements were met. . .
I've run a "bargain" B-tier for years...has been $20 for any am division, but I went up to $25 this year. Sold out faster than ever in spite of the increase. The key thing is I don't rely on making any money off the player packs (no payouts). Instead I do a bit of hustling for outside sponsorship to cover added pro cash and to bolster the player packs. This year, thanks to sponsorship, ams are getting a $50-55 retail value player pack plus the value of two days of play on a P2P course. And the pros, who also pay a "bargain" entry of $35-50 (MPO pays more than the rest) are going to get a near 200% payout without me having to come up with much more than the minimum required added cash. The key thing is that the event sells out without me making any promises with regard to sponsorship, especially for the ams. All I'm promising is a player pack equal to their entry (so basically a disc plus the value of two days of play) and it sells out in less than a day.

I also run a C-tier that meets all the requirements of a B-tier except added pro cash. $15 am entries with a player pack of $10-12 retail value (plus the value of a day on a P2P course). Pros (paying $25-30) usually play for a purse with $100-150 added. Also consistently sells out.

It definitely can be done. I think too many TDs are more concerned with "feeding the beast" with big payouts (am and pro) so they keep going up on entry fees to create bigger overall numbers rather than buck trends and provide the same or better bang for the buck on a smaller scale.


Last edited by JC17393; 05-21-2019 at 07:37 PM.
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  #180  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:16 PM
Improbably Improbably is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
So is your interest in cheaper AM side events catering to people who don't care from players packs and merch prizes?

Doesn't seem to mesh with how you started this thread. AMs who are happy paying a bargain entry to play for trophy only and no players pack aren't going to pay a lot more for no chance in PRO. Many of the "local pro" players I know have INT ratings and are only playing PRO to get out from under the AM Scam. The players packs and merch prizes many people have little interest in encourage PRO side growth.

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