Old 01-07-2017, 07:56 AM
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AndyJB AndyJB is offline
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I must say, this thread and the 2017 Sponsors thread are very interesting from a Sociology perspective. Highly illuminating stuff, and I'm not even done wading through it all.

Both sides have points, and there is no easy answer especially without Val herself getting into specifics which I don't imagine she ever will. I find it pretty awesome to see how many people are intelligently defending her without blatant white knighting. It shows the beggining of a cultural shift in society in general and that bodes well for the future.

Also have to quickly commend both McBeth and Holly Finley for wading into this. These forums can be brutal. Everyone so far seems pretty relaxed though.

Either way, this is a complex situation. At various points my wife, daughter and neice have all played competitive disc golf...my daughter and niece have won their divisions too...and have expressed firm disinterest in ever competiting again. So that goes back quite a few posts to Holly's question of how do we KEEP women and girls in the sport side of disc golf as opposed to the casual (not that casual is bad) while also keeping them playing casually/increasing numbers. Hopefully that is something that Val can work on going forward.

Last thing: if I were Discraft I would offer her the moon to play under the brand.
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Old 01-07-2017, 08:15 AM
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pmatt1969 pmatt1969 is offline
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The world is not fair. It does not have to be. What did someone else get that I didn't. I'm a special snowflake. I didn't get my way. So sick of hearing it. Time to toughen up buttercups. So over this PC whiny Pu**y bullshid I hear everyday.
Old 01-07-2017, 08:45 AM
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The sport is not big enough for Val leaving to matter except to Val and Innova. They don't have her anymore and she's not with them. That's it, nothing more.

To claim a disc golf company who makes all their money off of disc golf does not want the sport to grow is kind of insane.
Old 01-07-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Finny View Post
After this exchange with Paul, I feel the same way. Really leaving a sour taste in my mouth about him and Innova. Sucks when your favorites turn out to be not so great IRL.
This has to be some of the most sanctimonious **** i've ever seen posted here.

Not everybody shares your opinion. Get over it. I have a sour taste in my mouth from all of your whining and white knighting.

Originally Posted by corndog23 View Post
Seems to me that there are certain people here who are trying to downplay the fact that she has won FOUR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS!! One of which also has four world championships, and he should know that it's not real easy to accomplish. I don't care what division you play. Val should be recognized appropriately, and up to this point, I don't believe she feels that she has been. Simple as that.
Four PROTECTED DIVISION world championships. Yes people are trying to downplay it compared to winning open. The fact that you can't see the difference is YOUR problem.

Last edited by Anon; 01-07-2017 at 09:11 AM.
Old 01-07-2017, 09:09 AM
AHagglund AHagglund is offline
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Women's disc golf is good thing. A very good thing that I wish we had more of. That being said:

1) Innova should spend its money however it wants, because it belongs to them.

2)The second that Innova felt it would be profitable to reimburse the women at the same rate as they reimburse men, they would do it.

3) Speculation about Innova putting money into women's disc golf being a good long-term investment is just that--speculation. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. But we don't get to judge Innova, since it's not our money that would be lost if we guess wrong. I have yet to see anyone in this thread offer to personally subsidize Val or WDG.

The solution to all of this: everyone should buy 100 PP Convicts. If women's discs sell, the industry will notice.
Old 01-07-2017, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Finny View Post
Then they should only sponsor McBeth. He's the only one who consistently moves plastic. I'd be fine with that. But don't give Sexton and Val the same baseline deal.
Why not, Sexton sells a lot of discs, he's a way bigger profile than Valarie. Based on value for Innova, it makes a lot of sense to give Sexton a better deal than Valarie
Old 01-07-2017, 09:15 AM
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It's obvious the female side of disc golf has the most potential for growth. So the logical long term plan for any disc golf business would be to take some of the profit from the male side, invest in a few marquee women to represent the sport (and their products) and to start building the female side of their business. In this respect, both male and female sponsored athletes should be given the same benefits from said sponsor. (Same bonus levels, same royalties percentages, etc, etc) Granted if I was CEO of said company, I would certainly negotiate a private signing on bonus per athlete and that would be based on perceived marketability. But everything else would be standard across the board, male or female, and 100% based on market performance.

Perhaps this is what DD plans to do with the sponsorship of Paige. I could see Paige representing a new marketing plan for DD to bring in the female market. Actually both Paiges that DD has sponsored are huge assets for targeting the female side of the business.

While Prodigy has Cat, I personally don't see her doing alot to bring in other women to the sport. Perhaps I'm wrong, but she just doesn't have that engaging personality needed to build a brand on. Even though I have (finally) seen her smile more often in recent videos. lol..

I think Innova lost the #1 female ambassador for women's disc golf. They really should have done "anything" to keep her around. At the least, for the next few years to milk her recent success. Perhaps ultimately, this is why Val left, because she didn't see the investment in "her" that she feels she deserves.
Old 01-07-2017, 09:20 AM
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It's not obvious that the women's side has the most potential for growth.

In all likelihood, in number of participants, there will be more growth on the men's side.

It's the number of participants (customers, spectators) that matter, not the percentage.
Old 01-07-2017, 09:22 AM
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Just a comment to clarify 'equal value' and 'equal pay' and all that stuff.

Let's say Paul McBeth and Valarie Jenkins Doss have the same arrangement that Innova will pay Paul $1/disc for his sig discs sold, and Val gets $1/disc, as well. Just to keep the numbers hypothetical and tidy, let's say Paul's disc sold 100,000 copies and Val's sold 50,000 copies. Paul gets a check for $100,000. Val gets a check for $50,000.

Were they paid the same? Yes: $1/disc.

Did Paul make more money? Yes. His discs sold more, and he got more money as a result.

Now let's say Sexton has the same contract, and his Glow Champ Firebird sold 200,000 copies, and so he earns $200,000. Wow, he's being paid more than Paul! Is Nate Sexton he more valuable to Innova than 4x World Champ Paul McBeth? Hmmmm, dunno about that... and therein lies the arguments for the past 17 pages of this thread...

But again, and one last time: Per Val's statement, it seems she told Innova she was leaving BEFORE she won the 4th title. If that is correct, then everything she said has to be looked it in a context other than her sig disc after winning her fourth title.

And a note to Holly Finley on retaining women in DG: I wish I knew the answer, and for chess as well as DG. But I don't. As AndyJB said above: there's lots of sociology in this, and there is psychology and physiology as well.

Old 01-07-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Anon View Post
This has to be some of the most sanctimonious **** i've ever seen posted here.

Not everybody shares your opinion. Get over it. I have a sour taste in my mouth from all of your whining and white knighting.

Four PROTECTED DIVISION world championships. Yes people are trying to downplay it compared to winning open. The fact that you can't see the difference is YOUR problem.
Well, you seem fun. I read this forum enough to know that none of my posts are in the top 100,000 in sanctimony. I haven't whined once. Is it possible to post that a woman is getting a raw deal without "white knighting"? If so, I think I've done that.

I will never understand this protected division nonsense. Do you think all women's Olympic medals are invalid?
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