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Old 01-07-2017, 10:23 AM
SonicGuy SonicGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by tomte View Post
Btw. businesses are not thought to make money. They are meant to fulfill our needs. Be that food, transportation, entertainment... Everything more is just plain greed. Also if you have a business that can make a lot of money from one product, it is more than normal to use that money to promote another one or start another business or donate it to education/arts/culture. If Innova failed to use the money they made with their products promote and fulfill the needs of their players Val made the perfectly correct decision: Leaving a bad business.
I thought you died Fidel?
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  #202  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:27 AM
Finny Finny is offline
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
Factual opinion of a sponsored player, factual opinion of a touring pro, factual opinion of a sponsored touring pro......which as it turns out, is the topic. I dare say, I carries more weight than speculative opinion. Of course, if you are a sponsored touring pro, the stones you cast would also carry weight. But, I cannot imagine why you took it to a personal level.
I was trying to point out that the phrase "factual opinions" doesn't make sense.
  #203  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:29 AM
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Hampstead Hampstead is online now
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Originally Posted by Anon View Post

Are you even reading the thread?


Unfortunately, yes.
  #204  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
But I am.

If the women's side grows 10 times as fast as the men's side, the men's side will still produce more new customers.

If a particular company invests (puts its money) into that women's-side growth, they may not reap great rewards---only a portion of those new customers will be new customers for that particular company.

Anyway, it's a gamble, and Innova's money. It's fine for us to say Innova should invest (spend money) on women, and invest in youth programs, and invest in the pro tour, and invest in television, and invest in all sorts of things that might get them a return on investment. Or might not. Innova invests where they see a return, and puts a lot of money and effort into efforts where they see it as more of a give-back than an investment, but it's their money so they get to choose. I can't fault them for their choice.

This is how I feel exactly. They are running a for profit business. This is capitalism. Pushing for Val to be supported more financially or in any other way just because she is female is a social issue. I think that Innova would be eager to push the women more if the market was there. Is it their job or responsibility to develop that market in the name of equality? Absolutely not.
Let's talk about Peter Shive. The man has 13 or 14 world championships. Look at his age demographic. Huge population of retirees. Is it also the responsibility of Innova to give Peter Shive more money because of his dominance? Absolutely not. Why? Because he wouldn't bring a return on investment. ( I actually think Shive retired this year or at least I heard he did).
I am not hating on women but I am really tired of hearing that women aren't treated equally.
  #205  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:32 AM
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Aim For The Chains Aim For The Chains is offline
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MN: the state of multiple world championship*basketball titles.








*WNBA and aint nobody give a ****.



The women dgera should start selling their body space for advertising! Lets play guess the WNBA team!?

Last edited by Aim For The Chains; 01-07-2017 at 10:35 AM.
  #206  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:35 AM
Finny Finny is offline
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Originally Posted by SonicGuy View Post
To be honest I wouldn't prevent them from playing FPO of they had their heart set on it, I would just discourage it. Disc golf is against the course, there is no danger of being injured by a more physically developed boy. The only danger is losing, which I know Millennials find to be extremely scary. If my girl was good enough to contribute on a team for a non contact sport like basketball and soccer I would absolutely encourage them to play on the "boys" team. But again there you have things like locker room social dynamics that make it tricky, which disc.golf does not have.

Sports can either be for camaraderie, competition, or recreation. Team sports require organization to play, it is hard to play baseball with a couple people. In most cases team sports require entry into some sort of competitive league even if you only want the recreation or camaraderie.

Disc golf is not like this. The only reason to do tournaments is competitive. People aren't really social, that is what leagues are for. It is a lot of waiting around, it would be much more fun recreationally to avoid tournaments. If competition is the single goal of disc golf tournaments I see no reason to handicap your performance by competing in a gender protected division.
The "play against the course" point is a good one. (I think basketball and soccer are contact sports, though.) I don't think it "handicaps performance" when a woman plays FPO, but I do know from talking to competitive women disc golfers that it sure gets boring playing with the same 3 people every tourney.

I don't think you meant to dodge this question, but I'm still curious: if FPO had just as many people in it as MPO, would that change you advice to your daughters?
  #207  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:44 AM
SonicGuy SonicGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Finny View Post
I don't think you meant to dodge this question, but I'm still curious: if FPO had just as many people in it as MPO, would that change you advice to your daughters?
It is not about the number of competitors, it is about the level of competition. If we stacked up the divisions based on score.needed to win, I would want my daughters to play the hardest division they would enjoy playing where enjoyment excluded winning as a factor.
  #208  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:45 AM
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Mulligan Mulligan is offline
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I'll say it again... the local cultures across the nation play a big role in how DG is perceived by women.
Despite the fact that I was introduced to the sport by a former GF, and that my local culture is currently pretty decent at welcoming women, I have never seen a female playing a solo round in the wild (or even just a group of all women).
I have never seen a female working behind the counter at a disc golf shop... I think that plays a huge role.
I'm not even sure that I've ever seen another female IN a DG shop that wasn't there with me.

The thing that stands out to me the most in Val's statement is that she is putting the responsibility for "changing the landscape of women's disc golf" solely at the door of the manufacturers.
Maybe Innova wasn't doing enough based on her own viewpoints.... but the only female players I can name off the top of my head are BECAUSE they are Innova sponsored. (Hell, I'm pretty sure I didn't know a pro tour for men even really existed until I had played 5-10 years, and I'd say thats pretty common.)

But, as the Women's Committee Chair, I don't understand how she can't see that the role of promoting women in the sport rests with the PDGA.
She has a degree in business marketing... there is an open position for Exec Director of the PDGA at this moment.
There's the best option she has, if she really wants to make a dent.
  #209  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:56 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
...I have never seen a female playing a solo round in the wild (or even just a group of all women).
I have never seen a female working behind the counter at a disc golf shop... I think that plays a huge role.
I'm not even sure that I've ever seen another female IN a DG shop that wasn't there with me. ..
Here in the future of DG (Minnesota) I've seen all these often enough we don't even comment on it anymore.
 

  #210  
Old 01-07-2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
I'll say it again... the local cultures across the nation play a big role in how DG is perceived by women.
Despite the fact that I was introduced to the sport by a former GF, and that my local culture is currently pretty decent at welcoming women, I have never seen a female playing a solo round in the wild (or even just a group of all women).


There's a ladies only league that plays doubles an Tuesday nights in the spring and summer. They rotate courses each week, maybe a dozen or so women play, depending on the course. They are very welcoming to new players. If your gf is interested, they have a FB page where they list what course they're playing each week.

There are quite a few female players in Central Ohio, and I have witnessed several "in the wild" playing solo rounds.
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