#131  
Old 03-04-2020, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
Feel ain't real and to be clear, I don't think the amount of stagger is that important so long as you are shifting targetward. The problem starts when you shift off the line of your trajectory. It's very easy to have your shift start to follow your stagger to the left. The more stagger you have, the more your butt has to stick out to remain dragging along the wall in the wall drill.

If I'm doing the wall drill, I start with right foot directly in front of left foot and it strides parallel to the wall. That let's my hips stay back without feeling like I'm struggling. If I add another 6" of offset, it get's tricky to keep my hips back unless I'm throwing a hyzer.
When you talk about the ski turn feel, does the front foot feel like it's nearly turned backwards as it heads to the plant? I think it's because I'm so used to leaning forward and throwing it out in front of me a straight stride feels almost as if I'm planing BEHIND my other foot. Obviously I'm not, but I'm worried about letting it become turning backwards in the x-step.

I think it's just a case of changing muscle memory and small adjustments FEELING much more dramatic.
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  #132  
Old 03-04-2020, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by drk_evns View Post
When you talk about the ski turn feel, does the front foot feel like it's nearly turned backwards as it heads to the plant? I think it's because I'm so used to leaning forward and throwing it out in front of me a straight stride feels almost as if I'm planing BEHIND my other foot. Obviously I'm not, but I'm worried about letting it become turning backwards in the x-step.

I think it's just a case of changing muscle memory and small adjustments FEELING much more dramatic.
Yes, it can feel that way and it is probably easy to over-do it and end up too backwards, but I think of it like a good hershyzer drill. Your butt is coming in first, plant foot is leading with the heel like you're dragging the ski backwards.


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  #133  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
Yes, it can feel that way and it is probably easy to over-do it and end up too backwards, but I think of it like a good hershyzer drill. Your butt is coming in first, plant foot is leading with the heel like you're dragging the ski backwards.





That Eagle gif pretty accurately describes how my legs are feeling. Thank you!

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  #134  
Old 03-04-2020, 07:50 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. I'm on the same page.

What about the "add more stagger" comment at the beginning. I cringe every time I see it recommended just because it's so difficult to train out and it's what I'm going through right now.

I think what drew says does not necessarily match what he does. He has a pretty straight stride. I can't figure out why so many pros talk about it. Simon seems to be one of the only one with a truly large stagger. What am I missing?
I think it was a little confusing/counter intuitive with what he was saying or how he said it. I don't have a problem with it, and he isn't wrong.

You do need to stagger some or end up in stagger to block the energy of the rear side into the front side to create rotation.

I think the problem most people have with too much stagger is like what HUB is saying, they aren't getting balanced on the front leg. It's also a symptom of trying to be like Simon or doing something without understanding it. They are shifting the whole body/head in the wrong way over to the stagger/humping the goat with the rear leg and collapsing into/behind the front leg. If you watch Simon, his head starts way over to the left in the x-step and he strides his front foot over so it's straight underneath his head/shoulders.

My upper body weighs too much to do that, gravity will pull me over before I can get my foot underneath me. Pretty sure that's why GG is so vertical in the x-step and then tilts going into the plant and lands in only slight stagger. Skinny people may have an easier time tilting over so much in the x-step, but I still don't think it's the most efficient way to move, look at the Jarvis brothers standing straight up in x-step.

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  #135  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:11 PM
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I think it was a little confusing/counter intuitive with what he was saying or how he said it. I don't have a problem with it, and he isn't wrong.



You do need to stagger some or end up in stagger to block the energy of the rear side into the front side to create rotation.



I think the problem most people have with too much stagger is like what HUB is saying, they aren't getting balanced on the front leg. It's also a symptom of trying to be like Simon or doing something without understanding it. They are shifting the whole body/head in the wrong way over to the stagger/humping the goat with the rear leg and collapsing into/behind the front leg. If you watch Simon, his head starts way over to the left in the x-step and he strides his front foot over so it's straight underneath his head/shoulders.



My upper body weighs too much to do that, gravity will pull me over before I can get my foot underneath me. Pretty sure that's why GG is so vertical in the x-step and then tilts going into the plant and lands in only slight stagger. Skinny people may have an easier time tilting over so much in the x-step, but I still don't think it's the most efficient way to move, look at the Jarvis brothers standing straight up in x-step.


That makes total sense! I’m a very large human, I can see how it would be harder to stagger for a bigger person.

What I still don’t understand is why Simon’s stagger helps. I understand what you mean about him still shifting towards the target, but I don’t understand what sticking that lead leg out further does.

I see how keeping it straight allows for a faster pivot. Not saying there isn’t an upside to a stagger, I just don’t understand it.

My guess would be that it allows for a longer swing by essentially forcing “griplock.”
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  #136  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:34 PM
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The more you stagger, the more space you give yourself for the swing as the rear side gets more out of the way.

Thing is that stagger/swing space really happens from the rear foot, not the front foot and this is where people screw it up moving into the swing space instead of clearing away from it. Simon just strides his foot in a big circle so it looks really exaggerated and creates more internal torque in the body winding up the front leg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwy1HNMfhbk&t=2m35s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio&t=6m5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZG5eW-1b-g&t=24s
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  #137  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:56 PM
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This is an interesting read on Hogan's diagonal stance.
http://biokineticgolfswing.blogspot....al-stance.html
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  #138  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:48 AM
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That Eagle gif pretty accurately describes how my legs are feeling. Thank you!
The more I watch it, the more I see the front half of his body turning all the way back and the rear side pushing everything forward laterally.

Compared to how my throw was feeling before, the "ski turn" feels like a much wider range of motion. Like a sprinkler with two stops that has gone from an 80-degree arc to a 180-degree arc. It makes sense that it would be much more powerful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
The more you stagger, the more space you give yourself for the swing as the rear side gets more out of the way.

Thing is that stagger/swing space really happens from the rear foot, not the front foot and this is where people screw it up moving into the swing space instead of clearing away from it. Simon just strides his foot in a big circle so it looks really exaggerated and creates more internal torque in the body winding up the front leg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwy1HNMfhbk&t=2m35s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio&t=6m5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZG5eW-1b-g&t=24s
So when you get the rear side more out of the way, are you technically reaching back behind yourself in a good way? Does the swing extend back and then left behind you to get more turn out of the body?

OR

Does it just require your front side to get out of the way FASTER? This would make sense because someone like Simon could do that, but us bigger guys would have trouble moving out of the way fast or far enough.
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  #139  
Old 03-05-2020, 01:16 PM
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Not sure I'm following the question. Your front side will clear out of the if you are swinging forward balanced on front leg. Rear side will clear out of the way if your backswing is balanced on rear leg. The clearing speed is all relative to your leg pumping swing, if you clear faster than the swing, then there is a disconnect. If you stagger too much you won't be able to shift balanced on either leg and get stuck in the middle.
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  #140  
Old 06-01-2020, 08:41 AM
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Played a round yesterday at my old home course and I'm in a great place. I'm to a point where all of my throws look good on camera and I was more accurate than I've ever been on the course.

I'm throwing consistent distance and can add a lot of power with a bigger run up now. Had a 425-450 flat to hyzer shot on a hole that felt like one of my best ever and it was effortless. Nearly aced the next hole after that one.

You know how you imagine your best shot on every hole of your home course, and think about how good you have the potential to be? It felt like I was living that round.

As a bonus, my putt has felt effortless lately. I cannot wait for tournaments to really start back up.

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