#61  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:17 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Courses Played: 38
Posts: 869
Niced 752 Times in 351 Posts
Default

I hope that AlphaFoxFL, the OP, will be able to sort out some good advice from this thread. It may be buried in layers of misunderstanding.

Here is an archive of the old DGR site: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/r...echnique.shtml
If you haven't seen this before, there is some good info here. Some things like available discs might be dated at this point.
Sponsored Links

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:20 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is online now
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 627
Niced 42 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
There was a general misunderstanding. Until now you gave the impression that you were unable to throw those discs 200 feet without them flipping over, and you kept stating that hyzerflipping was the answer.

Hyzerflipping is one thing, but you can certainly throw those discs without hyzerflipping.

As for Eagle, by pointing out the hyzer angle in combination with your repeated statements on hyzerflipping, you are comparing (not equating 1:1, but speaking comparably like your situation is somewhat similar) your arm speeds. Otherwise why point out the need for hyzer?

He doesn't throw that disc regularly in competition for any number of reasons. Speculate it is because it 1) isn't durable enough 2) already has bagged a D-Line FD, which is comparable 3) his power and the shots he needs to execute in competition require different discs.

But again, that is missing the point. No one is saying you need to throw a DX Leopard for a max distance driver. Everyone is saying that you should be able to get more out of your starter pack type discs than you are getting (especially when all the info available was that you couldn't throw them 200 feet.) Even throwing them past that distance, they aren't just limited to hyzerflips. Can you throw a putter on anhyzer for any appreciable distance? What can you do with those discs at different heights, different lines/trajectories, etc.? All you are doing is throwing hyzerflips and low shots. Which is fine, you gotta focus on one thing at a time. But to dismiss or ignore the possibility of a putter anhyzer shot by pointing out the hyzer needed on a Leopard is leaving a lot on the table. You are still stuck on saying your issue is that you haven't mastered the required hyzer angle. But there are other ways to manipulate the flight of a disc, such as height. Try things other than hyzerflipping. Consider the other shots in the videos referenced earlier, not just the Leopard drives that flipped over. What about the 400' anhyzer putter shot? What can you learn from that? What about the 330' midrange shots? What can you learn from that? Those are all as far or further than your max driver distance. Why is that? It isn't just hyzerflipping. Note that they are higher shots than your "no more than 8 feet" ceiling. Explore that.

In short, there are so many more aspects to throwing (even for distance) than low hyzerflips. Spending some time figuring them out will only help.
That's kind of where I am at. I'm just at that point of experimenting with different angles. I was baffled for a few days back when I changed grip because I thought I was going backwards. Thanks to videos and forums like this one I learned what a "flippy" disc was. I learned about different weights and plastics, etc. That same research led me to buy new discs that better fit where I am at right now. The Mamba disc I have I got based off of information I read from both Innovas website and this forum. I was looking for a max distant driver for my arm speed that went laser straight. The Mamba was what was recommended. And sure enough, from countless hours of field practice, releasing my discs on the same angle and trajectory, I can get the longest straightest shots with the Mamba.

What's interedting to me now is learnibg all these angle manipulations and release heights to get distance. 2 weeks ago I didn't know much about distance gains with hyzer flips and flex anhyzer shots. So now, I'm trying to learn. And this forum is wonderful for learning these things.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:35 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Courses Played: 38
Posts: 869
Niced 752 Times in 351 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
And this forum is wonderful for learning these things.
Especially when we aren't misunderstanding one another.

I'm really glad to know you aren't having trouble throwing slow light discs over 200 feet anymore. That was alarming, especially with the earlier recommendation to chuck a distance driver around while stating slow light discs are too flippy to throw. It really sounded like going down the wrong path and giving up on working with slow discs.

Looking forward to you getting that 350'.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:45 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is online now
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 627
Niced 42 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
Especially when we aren't misunderstanding one another.

I'm really glad to know you aren't having trouble throwing slow light discs over 200 feet anymore. That was alarming, especially with the earlier recommendation to chuck a distance driver around while stating slow light discs are too flippy to throw. It really sounded like going down the wrong path and giving up on working with slow discs.

Looking forward to you getting that 350'.
Yeah. Im not the best at explaining things. Sorry if I was giving misinformation. I love this sport. I absolutely love watching discs glide through the air. My goal in playing this game is to be able to get out to 400 feet on those occasions when I need it, learn different shots and angles and get to where I can play and have fun for a very long time.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-02-2020, 12:43 AM
Putt for D'oh's Avatar
Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Years Playing: 5.5
Courses Played: 24
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,253
Niced 566 Times in 330 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
I'm really glad to know you aren't having trouble throwing slow light discs over 200 feet anymore. That was alarming, especially with the earlier recommendation to chuck a distance driver around while stating slow light discs are too flippy to throw. It really sounded like going down the wrong path and giving up on working with slow discs.
This makes me think of something that came for me.

I was talking with a guy yesterday on my home course. The way it is laid out there is pay to park for hole 1, or start on hole 13 if its busy. Pull off and park for free (risking a ticket) near hole 3 and 6. So I'm playing with a friend and we are playing slow. Mulligans and chatting and multiple putts. very casual round. and this guy catches up to us on 17. So we play the last couple holes all together and he's parked down by 3 so I play another couple holes together. He's been playing a year and is pretty mediocre. Like very beginner level but obviously athletic, throwing BH ok but using super US discs to compensate for his form.

I pointed him to SW22 and HUB's youtube pages and talked to him about a lot of the advice on the internet might not be wrong, but it also might not be good. In the moment I had said "use the discs that work for you, whatever makes you happy on the course. A lot of the internet is dead set on using mids and putters to work on form and they're right, but you don't need to do that on the course. Use the disc you like and work for you to play a round and keep it fun. BUT watch those videos and go to a field and throw putters and understable mids to get better if that is what you want."

I think too many people get tied up on improving and playing at the same time and it takes the fun out of playing and doesn't get enough payoff in the improvement catagory. OS crutch discs for a S**T load of OAT is fine on the course, and beat up flippy 14 speed drivers to reach that 280' hole is also fine. If you do work on the side that will change and I think the fun of it will stick around.

Whatever RoDeO is throwing and however it works is fine and I support it on the course.
But through stuff said on this thread I would encourage some video and form critque.

Also super damn jealous of progressing so quick lefty. I have very little Bball history. And lastly over use issue with the right arm probably had to do with deathgrip on the disc too early.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08-02-2020, 01:15 AM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Courses Played: 38
Posts: 869
Niced 752 Times in 351 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh View Post
In the moment I had said "use the discs that work for you, whatever makes you happy on the course. A lot of the internet is dead set on using mids and putters to work on form and they're right, but you don't need to do that on the course. Use the disc you like and work for you to play a round and keep it fun. BUT watch those videos and go to a field and throw putters and understable mids to get better if that is what you want."

I think too many people get tied up on improving and playing at the same time and it takes the fun out of playing and doesn't get enough payoff in the improvement catagory. OS crutch discs for a S**T load of OAT is fine on the course, and beat up flippy 14 speed drivers to reach that 280' hole is also fine. If you do work on the side that will change and I think the fun of it will stick around.
This was the idea I tried to communicate early in the thread, in post #17 where I talked about two pathways that don't have to be mutually exclusive. Agree that it should be a good mix of the two. Throw what gets good results and/or is fun on the course, but when working on form, disc down and get the basics right.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 08-02-2020, 09:09 AM
Keller's Avatar
Keller Keller is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Above ground
Years Playing: 7.3
Courses Played: 22
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,136
Niced 1,948 Times in 850 Posts
Default

Just a thought from my own personal experience.

I never had luck with the mixing it up thing; the throw one thing on field work and something different during rounds. I just found it frustrating. Muscle memory is a funny thing, and as soon as I put the heavy regular round disc in my hand, the regular heavy round disc throw was back. It may work for some, just didn't work for me.

My watershed moment came when I met up with one of our local pros on the first tee. I had my normal bag and he showed up with a 160gr dx Skeeter. He had developed a small timing issue he was trying to work out and was there just to play a one disc round, (by the way, he can throw mids 400ft). So we played a round, and yes, he totally kicked my a$$! On that day, I changed my game and my outlook.

I followed the "how to build a bag thread" advice. I put together a bag with a DX Aviar P&A, DX Roc, DX Cheetah and a DX Eagle, all 160 grams. Wasn't even a bag really, most times I just carried them in my hand. And that was all I played rounds with. I was teased, made fun of and riddled with all the usual question that those who never tried it assume you won't be able to do. What are you going to do in the wind? How are you going to throw this or that shot with out X,Y,or Z disc? You need a Firebird and an approach disc! Just a lot of gibberish that has become ingrained by manufacturers in the bag videos.

When you have limited amount of discs, you learn how to throw them on many angles and in many conditions. It's a real eye opener. I learned to slow down and become a smooth thrower. By the way, this little experiment boosted me leaps and bounds in the forehand game too. When you learn how to flick a light weight DX Aviar, you can flick anything. Discs don't have limitations, people do. People also lack imagination.

I don't know, maybe some can do the practice one way and play another, it just didn't work for me, besides, I was always told to play how you practice to ingrain what you have been practicing.

I also think it's an ego testosterone thing. I see it all the time when I have played with newer players. You take the time to teach them, and the next time you see them out with their buddies hucking Destroyers on 250ft holes. Group mentality never likes a trend bucker and it can be hard to be the odd man out. But do you want to be better, or do you just want to fit in?

I think it's far more satisfying parking a 250ft hole with an Aviar, but that's just me. I think it takes a bit of courage to find and play your own game, but in the end it has been rewarding to me and that is what I try to teach newer players. Pay no attention to the torque monkey on the next tee, in short order you'll be throwing a controlled stand still midrange the same distance!

Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08-02-2020, 12:04 PM
azplaya25's Avatar
azplaya25 azplaya25 is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Courses Played: 4
Posts: 583
Niced 355 Times in 210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keller View Post
Just a thought from my own personal experience.

I never had luck with the mixing it up thing; the throw one thing on field work and something different during rounds. I just found it frustrating. Muscle memory is a funny thing, and as soon as I put the heavy regular round disc in my hand, the regular heavy round disc throw was back. It may work for some, just didn't work for me.

My watershed moment came when I met up with one of our local pros on the first tee. I had my normal bag and he showed up with a 160gr dx Skeeter. He had developed a small timing issue he was trying to work out and was there just to play a one disc round, (by the way, he can throw mids 400ft). So we played a round, and yes, he totally kicked my a$$! On that day, I changed my game and my outlook.

I followed the "how to build a bag thread" advice. I put together a bag with a DX Aviar P&A, DX Roc, DX Cheetah and a DX Eagle, all 160 grams. Wasn't even a bag really, most times I just carried them in my hand. And that was all I played rounds with. I was teased, made fun of and riddled with all the usual question that those who never tried it assume you won't be able to do. What are you going to do in the wind? How are you going to throw this or that shot with out X,Y,or Z disc? You need a Firebird and an approach disc! Just a lot of gibberish that has become ingrained by manufacturers in the bag videos.

When you have limited amount of discs, you learn how to throw them on many angles and in many conditions. It's a real eye opener. I learned to slow down and become a smooth thrower. By the way, this little experiment boosted me leaps and bounds in the forehand game too. When you learn how to flick a light weight DX Aviar, you can flick anything. Discs don't have limitations, people do. People also lack imagination.

I don't know, maybe some can do the practice one way and play another, it just didn't work for me, besides, I was always told to play how you practice to ingrain what you have been practicing.

I also think it's an ego testosterone thing. I see it all the time when I have played with newer players. You take the time to teach them, and the next time you see them out with their buddies hucking Destroyers on 250ft holes. Group mentality never likes a trend bucker and it can be hard to be the odd man out. But do you want to be better, or do you just want to fit in?

I think it's far more satisfying parking a 250ft hole with an Aviar, but that's just me. I think it takes a bit of courage to find and play your own game, but in the end it has been rewarding to me and that is what I try to teach newer players. Pay no attention to the torque monkey on the next tee, in short order you'll be throwing a controlled stand still midrange the same distance!

Absolutely love this post and I have followed the exact same strategy. My bag is now 3 DX aviars, 3 DX Rocs, and 3 DX Eagles. I play one of the tougher wooded courses in Austin several times a week with this set up and score very well. I actually went the route of putting a harp or metal flake teebird in my bag and found myself using them quite a bit. I also found myself losing my touch and ability to throw my understable stuff the more I used my utility disc. The last straw was when I torque monkeyed my most beautifully beat Roc over a residential fence on a hole I used to park with it. I took all the beef out of my bag, and took my aviars out to a soccer field and worked on hyzer flipping them bh and fh. Now my game is back and better. I find the dx eagles are probably the best woods golf disc there is , if you can get clean form they will fly any line you want out to 350 - 375 feet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 08-02-2020, 12:46 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Courses Played: 38
Posts: 869
Niced 752 Times in 351 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keller View Post
Just a thought from my own personal experience.

I never had luck with the mixing it up thing; the throw one thing on field work and something different during rounds. I just found it frustrating. Muscle memory is a funny thing, and as soon as I put the heavy regular round disc in my hand, the regular heavy round disc throw was back. It may work for some, just didn't work for me.

My watershed moment came when I met up with one of our local pros on the first tee. I had my normal bag and he showed up with a 160gr dx Skeeter. He had developed a small timing issue he was trying to work out and was there just to play a one disc round, (by the way, he can throw mids 400ft). So we played a round, and yes, he totally kicked my a$$! On that day, I changed my game and my outlook.

I followed the "how to build a bag thread" advice. I put together a bag with a DX Aviar P&A, DX Roc, DX Cheetah and a DX Eagle, all 160 grams. Wasn't even a bag really, most times I just carried them in my hand. And that was all I played rounds with. I was teased, made fun of and riddled with all the usual question that those who never tried it assume you won't be able to do. What are you going to do in the wind? How are you going to throw this or that shot with out X,Y,or Z disc? You need a Firebird and an approach disc! Just a lot of gibberish that has become ingrained by manufacturers in the bag videos.

When you have limited amount of discs, you learn how to throw them on many angles and in many conditions. It's a real eye opener. I learned to slow down and become a smooth thrower. By the way, this little experiment boosted me leaps and bounds in the forehand game too. When you learn how to flick a light weight DX Aviar, you can flick anything. Discs don't have limitations, people do. People also lack imagination.

I don't know, maybe some can do the practice one way and play another, it just didn't work for me, besides, I was always told to play how you practice to ingrain what you have been practicing.

I also think it's an ego testosterone thing. I see it all the time when I have played with newer players. You take the time to teach them, and the next time you see them out with their buddies hucking Destroyers on 250ft holes. Group mentality never likes a trend bucker and it can be hard to be the odd man out. But do you want to be better, or do you just want to fit in?

I think it's far more satisfying parking a 250ft hole with an Aviar, but that's just me. I think it takes a bit of courage to find and play your own game, but in the end it has been rewarding to me and that is what I try to teach newer players. Pay no attention to the torque monkey on the next tee, in short order you'll be throwing a controlled stand still midrange the same distance!
I would say that the "throw one thing on field work and something different during rounds" is more for players who are still learning basic throwing and need to throw something different during rounds to keep themselves interested in playing. Not everyone is going to dedicate themselves to being a disc golf "craftsman" so to speak, but everyone who wants to improve should at least spend some foundational time working on the craft. Once you have made progress with the basic discs, throw whatever you want on the course and in field practice. I think that's also what the conclusion is in the "how to build a bag" post.

Agree with the meat of your post. Throwing putters where others are throwing drivers and getting equal or better results is fun for me. Also I made my best FH progress when I learned to FH my beat up Classic Aviars. Prior to that, I had made the classic mistake of only throwing Firebird type discs for learning FH. It is why I strongly believe in being able to throw light/understable discs. If you can learn how to throw those and have the command to make them do different things, then you will have a better understanding of the principles of throwing. This will transfer over to throwing any disc.

As for the "play how you practice" concept, I think it is more of a mental thing. There is a physical component, sure. I reference back to my previous physical activity: powerlifting. When you powerlift, you are going for big lifts. But 80-90% of the time you are training, you are using submaximal weight. But you don't treat them as submaximal weight. You want to have the same setup, focus, etc. on the lighter weights as you do on the big weights. It is a matter of training the basic principles/form as well as the mindset, which will carry over.

I don't think there is only one way to go about things; the important part is building that foundation and understanding. That's the 80% part. Then the 20% part is where individual preferences/differences come into play. Where people run into problems is when they spend all their time focusing on the 20%.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
 

  #70  
Old 08-02-2020, 02:16 PM
AlphaFoxFL AlphaFoxFL is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 18
Niced 6 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Well, this thread exploded. For those of you who made comments about my throw progression, tips, advice, and anything else for beginners such as myself, I have read those and thank you for taking the time to post your input...!

Just a little bookmark of my progress: My DX Cobra and DX Shark (my two mids) are getting to the 160-200ft range easily now. The reason for this is something I learned recently about how a slight heizer on release with a understable or stable disc will create a pretty level shot because of the disc naturally levelling itself, and when I throw like this, the discs follow their respective paths for a good distance and are accurate enough that they should leave me with spots on the fairway.

There's something interesting I've noticed recently. My friends, who all play with Dynamic Discs for the most part, have been telling me that I should consider getting a higher speed driver (than my speed 6 Leopard) once I get my shots a little more straightened-out. I then noticed something when I saw a video where someone made the point how the Dynamic Discs' and other starter packs are perfect for beginners; the Dynamic Discs starting pack has the Escape driver (speed 9) whereas the Innova starting pack has a Leopard driver (speed 6). Yes, I know that you can't perfectly compare the flight numbers of one company to another, but I find it interesting that Innova chose a fairway driver on the low-speed side of fairway drivers, whereas Dynamic Discs chose a fairway driver with the speed of a low-speed "distance" driver.

Currently, I'm still working on getting a better flight path out of my Leopard, but after some trial rounds, the added distance it gives me when I throw it during rounds does actually lower my scores, even when it is a bit off-target.

What do you guys think? Once I get my mid and Leopard shots a little straighter and further, should I even consider getting a high-speed fairway or low-speed distance driver...? It seems like people can't agree on whether people like me "should" or "shouldn't" have even a driver in our hands at all yet, but is it something we should even try out...? Some people worry that beginners will ditch the technique and touch of their mids and putters to solely make their driving game better, but I sure ain't neglecting my mids or putter, because as they say, "the short-game wins games."

I'd love to know what you guys think, and I know I asked this kind of question near the beginning of this thread, but I've gotten a lot of insight, both virtually and in-person, and with all the mixed signals, I'm not sure if "trying" something can be that harmful unless you let it go to your head. So, is your advice the same...?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Chinese for "in the bag" translates to "all the discs I own" Fat Dragon Bag Suggestions & Feedback 0 06-24-2015 02:47 AM
PURPLE URPLE "ROC3" PROTO STAR 180g "rainbow stamp" beautiful disc , check IT Emoney The Marketplace 6 01-04-2013 08:31 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.