#91  
Old 07-20-2010, 10:33 PM
craftsman craftsman is offline
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I loved my drone but after the first time I heard this convo, I went to my normal dozen courses and put a force against my drone. The force covered all my tee shots, even turned some birdies into ace runs. For up shots, my wasp did the job.
The drone is an amazing disc at what it does- I just found I don't need it ( of course right after I ordered a few z's)
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  #92  
Old 07-20-2010, 11:38 PM
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hewittdallas hewittdallas is offline
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Ironically, I played a round today and didn't use my Demon. However, I also didn't really have any opportunities, but this conversation is still having an effect on my disc selection. Good conversation. Thank you to everyone who has participated.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:40 AM
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Technohic Technohic is offline
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You have to come across that situation you would use the Drone on and try one of the alternatives mentioned and once you get it down, you will have one of those "aha!" moments.

When I figured out I could even put a Leopard on a hyzer line, it really opened up some things for me.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:27 AM
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hewittdallas hewittdallas is offline
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Not to change the course of the thread, but I don't remember it being mentioned anywhere else in the thread. In addition to simply learning how to throw the various lines with a single disc, simply picking up the basics of another throwing style (BH or FH) will also prove invaluable in many of the situations mentioned early in the thread. Last night I had two very nice approach shots RHFH that would have been considerably more difficult RHBH. I know its not the exact same thing, but it seems to fit in the disc vs. touch thought process. At least in my mind.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:36 AM
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jdw80550 jdw80550 is offline
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I completely agree with this point. I have a very solid backhand and yet lack a forehand for anything farther than about 150'. I have been working on improving my forehand for just some of those situations you mentioned, however since right now I primarily have to rely on my backhand I have to allow the disc to do what comes naturally. There are several courses around here that are 60% forehand shots. I was getting crushed until I figured out how to consistantly throw my XL with a no come back annhyzer. And I guess IMO that this was the touch that I needed to be able to make those shots.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:44 AM
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I've noticed how many of you all live in MagicalChristmasLand where all your dreams come true and all your throws work out exactly like you planned, so I'm going to take a moment and comment on a few things I've read this morning.

Some have suggested that an overstable midrange disc(OSMD for the remainder of this comment)is unnecessary because the types of shots you throw with it can be done with an OS driver. So I take it you are recommending that we softly throw a driver so we don’t blow past our target? My experiences have shown me that I have greater success by doing my usual throw with a slower disc than trying to be easy with it and only throw a Firebird 200’. This is exactly the sort of thing our state champ was telling me; don’t change what you do well, instead use a disc that will shape the shot in a way that will do what you want on that hole. If you are trying to tell people that it is somehow easier to throw discs with varying degrees of hyzer consistently as opposed to just doing what we all worked on for months and years to do…throw a disc flat… I will call you a liar on that.

It has also been said that we shouldn’t carry an OSMD due to it taking up a slot in our bag. So I ask you; how many discs should we carry? I’ve discussed this elsewhere, but I’ll re-hash here, I carry exactly 14 discs with 8 being drivers and my 2 wizards. 1 drone, 1 roc(I keep trying it though I hate it so), and 2 buzzz in different states of wear. At no point in time do I feel as if my bag is stuffed because I included an OSMD. I think this is just someone looking for an excuse.

I’ll close on this. We have many wooded courses here in TN, and I do know the value of shaping a shot. I throw Leopards on hyzer in tight spots all the time and know what you are trying to say when you recommend us doing so with our midranges that are not OSMD. The point I would like to make is that there is less overall variance, thus a greater chance of success, in executing a flat throw with our normal power with an OSMD that will travel in the 200’ range vs. the other suggested ways I’ve read of achieving the same result of A. powering down of a overstable driver, or B. attempting to hyzer a less stable disc to achieve the same result.

We all have some level of skills to execute these shots and it is important to learn how to do them all. I just find it completely ridiculous when I read over and over again how players on here are trying to throw their putters on every upshot 250’ and 300’ away. You are opening yourself up to a world of pain that is completely unnecessary. I watched Climo last weekend throw Rocs on those shots. I play in the top amateur division, and I see people throw all types of upshots and drives for shorter holes. I say with full confidence that if the hole is open enough to accommodate the shot, a flat upshot with an OSMD is a safer, more predictable shot than what you have recommended, and there is definitely a place for that sort of disc in my bag.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:56 AM
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:00 AM
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hewittdallas hewittdallas is offline
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Overall, I agree with you and I think most in the discussion would. However, I believe the point they were making is that it is of greater importance to learn how to shape those lines with your normal molds first as it will give you a more complete game. A state champ is probably in the position to use as many molds as possible because he/she has already mastered the majority of the technique aspect of the game.

That being said, I have sort of ended up split down the middle on the subject. I really like my Demon for a few shots, but still have the desire to disc down drivers and learn all of the lines as well.

I guess the only logical conclusion is that I am going to have to play more disc golf!
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hewittdallas View Post
Does anyone else carry really overstable mids in their bag? I am talking more stable than Rocs/Wasps (e.g. Demon, Drone, etc...)

I recently acquired a bunch of Gateway discs to try them out and have had fun throwing a lot of new plastic. One of these acquisitions was a bright pink Demon in S plastic. At first, I was really surprised by just how overstable the disc really was and as I was throwing it on the practice field, it just didn't impress me. However, I have now played 36 holes since I picked the disc up and I honestly believe it has saved a stroke every single time I have thrown it.

I was just curious if others used discs like this or just shaped different lines with slightly less stable discs.
I was just trying to answer your questions. I do carry an overstable midrange, and I also know that it saves me strokes...mainly because it won't go too far. It fights really hard to get to the ground and eliminates blow bys. I've stated my case, and need to actually get some work done this morning. I also forgot to mention to you hewittdallas that I use the FLX Drone because the FLX plastic absorbs more of the energy on impact and doesn't skip past the target. I really do put thought into this stuff, unfortunately for me, everytime I try to add something I feel is of value to the conversation, I end up get bopped on the head like a child by someone who has thousands of forum posts.
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  #100  
Old 07-21-2010, 09:46 AM
garublador garublador is offline
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slowRoll, you're basing your arguments on false assumptions.

Quote:
So I take it you are recommending that we softly throw a driver so we don’t blow past our target?
Not softly. We aren't even recommending you change your form at all, we're just recommending that you omit part of the run up and/or reachback. Everything from the "power zone" (right pec) on will be exactly the same as a full power throw. You probably have a little leeway on how hard you hit it, especally if you're better at hitting it, but most of the power lost will be from not doing the x-step or not reaching back as far. You are correct that throwing more softly or "wussing out" on your shot is not a good idea. I'll also say that the distance numbers you gave are deceiving. Rocs are perfectly capable of 200' spike hyzers, you don't need a special mid for that and putters hold nice hyzers at that distance, too.

Quote:
If you are trying to tell people that it is somehow easier to throw discs with varying degrees of hyzer consistently as opposed to just doing what we all worked on for months and years to do…throw a disc flat… I will call you a liar on that.
I'd argue that spending months to years working on only throwing flat was a bad idea to begin with. You should have been learning to throw varying degrees of hyzer and anhyzer that whole time. In fact, it's the "Week 1" training assignment at DGR. Another week is throwing only spike hyzers to learn what you can do with them.

Quote:
A. powering down of a overstable driver, or B. attempting to hyzer a less stable disc to achieve the same result.
If you follow the advice we're giving from the start, both of those are trivial. That's the kind of stuff you learn to do right away. Working from the hit back (Dan Beto video) teaches you A while also teaching proper form and learning to throw all of your discs on all lines teaches you B. It's not stuff that should be tacked on after you learn to throw, it's stuff that should be part of the process of learning to throw.

Quote:
I say with full confidence that if the hole is open enough to accommodate the shot, a flat upshot with an OSMD is a safer, more predictable shot than what you have recommended, and there is definitely a place for that sort of disc in my bag.
Predictible, yes. Controlable, no. That's the argument we're making. As long as you want to land in one specific spot you're right. If you need to go 30' farther or 30' shorter then using a very overstable driver will make the shot a lot easier.

Part of it is that a vast majority of people on here aren't pros or top advances level players. They're rec to intermediate players looking to get better. They don't have the skills or consistancy they want. Most of the advice given is geared twards players improving their skills and game, not just advice on how to shave a stroke or two. If a player is happy with their skills and consistancy and want to minimize their scores with the skill set they have, then finding the discs that work the best for them is a good idea. If a player wants to improve their skill set and consistancy then taking the advice that will help them do that the easiest way known is a good idea. That is the advice we're giving.

Quote:
It has also been said that we shouldn’t carry an OSMD due to it taking up a slot in our bag....

I think this is just someone looking for an excuse.
I'm in total agreement there. That is not a good argument.
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