#161  
Old 07-01-2022, 12:06 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Hey,

Do you have any drills that can help me engage my core? I've been told that I need to activate my core which means abs and glutes?

Do I have to actively think of activating abs and squeezing as hard as I can with my butt to engage it, like I would when doing deadlift or sit ups for abs.

For more information, some people get sore abs when throwing for a while but I myself don't get sore at all. I can throw all day out in the field and next day my body is fine as it was yesterday, nothing is sore and nothing hurts. When throwing, I don't feel my core either, I only think of how I want to throw my disc. Only thing that gets exhausted are my legs and sometimes hunger comes as well, making me exhausted overall. After I eat, I can go back and throw all I want. I've had experience of throwing all day from morning to night or doing field work for 6 hours without any break. I don't get sore, is that bad or good or blessed?
Door Frame Drills/Bow and Arrow, Inside Swing Drill, Sledgehammer Toss. I think your time would be better served doing these drills.

Your core needs to be relaxed to coil it up further like Bow and Arrow. Stretched muscles fire or recoil harder automatically.
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  #162  
Old 07-04-2022, 09:08 AM
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Hey,

Do you have any drills that can help me engage my core? I've been told that I need to activate my core which means abs and glutes?

Do I have to actively think of activating abs and squeezing as hard as I can with my butt to engage it, like I would when doing deadlift or sit ups for abs.

For more information, some people get sore abs when throwing for a while but I myself don't get sore at all. I can throw all day out in the field and next day my body is fine as it was yesterday, nothing is sore and nothing hurts. When throwing, I don't feel my core either, I only think of how I want to throw my disc. Only thing that gets exhausted are my legs and sometimes hunger comes as well, making me exhausted overall. After I eat, I can go back and throw all I want. I've had experience of throwing all day from morning to night or doing field work for 6 hours without any break. I don't get sore, is that bad or good or blessed?
Wanted to agree w/ SW22's point about the drills. I do believe fitness/physical training is always and generically healthy, but it's not like it'll make your swing mechanics better. And better swing mechanics will automatically start "training" the body for the DG swing as you put reps in.

I'd suspect additional exercises are helpful early if you have physical limitations (either strength or flexibility) to address and may sometimes help you get more in touch with certain movements. That's part of why swinging heavier weights etc. can help you find the mechanics.

Focused exercises might be especially helpful again later when the form is well-developed and you're trying to push the body for additional resilience & gains. In that "middle" form building process, as long as your body can move freely and without restrictions I think mileage will vary, but I don't think you can really "hack" learning the form, unfortunately.

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  #163  
Old 07-04-2022, 04:53 PM
SmileyBoy SmileyBoy is offline
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Hey Sidewinder,

Regarding the kick the can & ball drill with rear foot. Is it okay to stop hopping and just take a slow step with rear foot? This means that I won't be able to kick the ball far because I'm slightly touching it due to how slow my rear foot moves. I've realized that my accuracy is better and more constant when taking it slow versus doing a tiny hop and kicking the ball far.

The thing is that slow x-step without hop is just horizontal movement and there's not much momentum behind it. With tiny hop to kick the ball, the vertical and horizontal movement is good and great but everything happens so fast and my hand gets fully extended fast as well after I've planted but I'm missing my lines because I'm not used to this kind of x-step speed.

What do you think? I can record both videos, slow x-step vs kick the ball x-step, if you want so I will know what options do I have and whether I should do this or that.

Bonus info: My forehand throws aren't hurting my shoulder or elbow anymore as far as I am aware. Played 4 rounds today, was exhausting and used lots of FH, no pain. Reason is that my throws are coming out of anhyzer angle immediately, not much, just tiny because I want to throw it that way. I can throw flat too sometimes and it doesn't hurt which is good. This may change in the future or not, idk but I'm happy to be able to use FH more without pain :]

Looking forward to your reply ��
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  #164  
Old 07-05-2022, 04:05 PM
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Both.

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  #165  
Old 07-07-2022, 04:08 PM
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Timelapses given in the comment section.

FH throws can be ignored or you can give advice, up to you. I'm mainly working on BH.

You can give advice on BH as well depending on which one you're going with, hop or no hop. To me, hop seems fast and lose some accuracy. Maybe not used to it, idk.

Edit: Do you prefer slow motion 240 fps throws or fast motion like it is right now or doesn't matter so I'll know next time.

Looking forward to your reply
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  #166  
Old 07-07-2022, 11:20 PM
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You take a really long x-step and as soon as your left foot touches the ground you start sinking down, instead of extending/posting up on it. If you do buttwipe drill from hershzyer position, you have to extend the rear leg to get over it while maintaining butt pressure on wall, and then sit/hinge back into rear hip striding into plant.

If you hop, it should be more vertical so that you land more in front of left foot like Markus Kallstrom. You are hopping and still landing well behind your left foot.

Note how your left elbow cranks way out and your right knee bends outside your toes, like you are picking up your leg and bending it so it doesn't hit the ground because you are crouched on left leg and can't swing the leg hanging from the hip, and your left elbow counter balances you being too far over your toes. Note how Paul/Simon keep the left elbow tucked in to the hip during the x-step and right knee hanging inside from hip, everything is more relaxed and centered/inside. You also hold the disc quite far out away during the x-step instead of keeping the disc closer into center chest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90#t=9m44s

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  #167  
Old 07-13-2022, 11:49 AM
SmileyBoy SmileyBoy is offline
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Quote:
You take a really long x-step and as soon as your left foot touches the ground you start sinking down, instead of extending/posting up on it. If you do buttwipe drill from hershzyer position, you have to extend the rear leg to get over it while maintaining butt pressure on wall, and then sit/hinge back into rear hip striding into plant.
What about now?
Something I noticed is how open my rear leg is. Is it okay if I modify it to be 90 degrees like plant leg or slightly open for better hip movement if it helps? What are your thoughts on this one?

Quote:
Note how your left elbow cranks way out and your right knee bends outside your toes, like you are picking up your leg and bending it so it doesn't hit the ground because you are crouched on left leg and can't swing the leg hanging from the hip, and your left elbow counter balances you being too far over your toes. Note how Paul/Simon keep the left elbow tucked in to the hip during the x-step and right knee hanging inside from hip, everything is more relaxed and centered/inside. You also hold the disc quite far out away during the x-step instead of keeping the disc closer into center chest.
What about now?

Timelapses added in YouTube comments section.

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  #168  
Old 07-15-2022, 12:17 AM
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What about now?
Something I noticed is how open my rear leg is. Is it okay if I modify it to be 90 degrees like plant leg or slightly open for better hip movement if it helps? What are your thoughts on this one?



What about now?
Funky posture/footwork. From side view you do look too backwards, however from behind view you look too restricted, your rear knee/hip don't really turn back. Looks like you really pick up your front knee and rear elbow flies out. Try to keep your rear elbow near the hip and stride with straighter front leg, just above ground.

I would suggest running sideways 100 meters, make it quick and efficient. If you keep rear foot 90 degrees you should end up running diagonal instead of straight(unless maybe you are naturally pigeon toed). To run straight lateral perpetually, your rear foot should be at a diagonal like a skater.

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Old 07-15-2022, 01:40 PM
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Try to keep your rear elbow near the hip and stride with a straighter front leg, just above the ground.
I don't know anymore what to do with off-arm exactly. I know that I need to do the move like Paul Mcbeth or someone else does. Today I just put my hand inside my pocket and kept it there the whole time. This way took some distance and accuracy away because it was a new thing I tried but the rear elbow was near the hip all the time. I assume this is not the best practice to keep off-arm close to your body and not do anything else with it like swim move.

I tried to stride straighter but to no avail. I don't know why to be honest. I even tried to be on top of toes only on both legs and touch the ground with plant leg toes like I would try to tiptoe my toes on the water to feel whether water is too cold or not. I'll keep trying.

Quote:
I would suggest running sideways 100 meters, make it quick and efficient. If you keep your rear foot 90 degrees you should end up running diagonally instead of straight(unless maybe you are naturally pigeon-toed). To run straight lateral perpetually, your rear foot should be at a diagonal like a skater.
Video coming tomorrow.


I've uploaded some gifs of Kristian Kuoksa here. The dude throws hella far but also he does things differently which I don't understand how it works and how to do it.

Questions I get when watching his throw:
1) His rear elbow gets away from his hip and strides almost in a squat position while I have to try to stride with a more straight leg. Is it because you're trying to help me find my own form that's gonna help me to throw further?
Did you also realize that X person is doing this but it doesn't mean it will work for me which means you want me to try out things you suggest to see if it worked out?

2) If he didn't catch himself with plant leg, he would wall on the ground butt first yeah? I realized that almost his entire butt is facing the target during his reach back.

3) Should I try to imitate some of his movements that may result in more distance for me?

4) I've been taught to have a disc on the same line as the rear leg since the beginning of the run-up but he is holding the disc on his navel spot or even more below, not sure, thus his elbow is leading the run-up at the beginning. Is this because it helps you avoid fully extended hand too early where the plant leg isn't planted yet?

5) I've been taught to put my disc against my off-arm and when it's time to rotate my body to get ready to throw, my off-arm should be in front of me fully extended kinda, right next to my disc almost while my hand with the disc is fully extended. That's what the Overthrow Disc Golf channel taught me when I watched the backhand setup video.

It's too much text here. I don't have any other questions I want to ask. I would just like to understand and know more about what to do to gain distance. I've hit a plateau and can't go further than 415 ft. I'm probably using my upper body more than the lower body and that's the limit one can do with the upper body mainly and not using lower body entirely I think.


Butt view (gif)
Diagonal behind view (gif)
Side view (gif)
Behind view (gif)
Side view (gif)
Diagonal behind view (gif)
Standstill diagonal behind view (gif)

Also, how is this guy's form allowing him to throw 500+ and my form doesn't allow me to do so? (0:38 starts)


Looking forward to your thoughts and what improvements will help me get more distance.

3 days ago I used to max out at 380 ft so I changed my thumb placement and it got me immediate results, going over 400 ft a bit, discs more understandable as well. Pressing down harder on disc flight plate and thumb is not close to disc rim. I'm looking for similar results in regards to the lower and upper body, basically wherever possible. The grip is now okay, something else is wrong or may need improvement for more distance. Or have I hit the wall so bad where I just have to rep it out and distance will come by itself, slowly but surely?
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  #170  
Old 07-15-2022, 02:16 PM
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My 2 cents:

I think your posture is going to be a fundamental block until you address it. Leading the swing, the posture/spine position determines where the CoG is in relation to the swing. E.g., here that little yellow loop is an important part of the dynamic. You won't have it in your swing because of your spine position. That little "precession" is a big driver of late acceleration in the swing. Your posture may also put you at greater risk of back injury.




https://www.golfdistillery.com/swing...address/spine/

Sideway run will be interesting/useful.


Re: Kuoksa, I'm interested in what SW22 and others say but first and foremost notice that his posture is better, and when your posture is better it is easier to move and throw with either straighter or crouched legs. Some responses to your Q's here in bold.


~~~~~
Questions I get when watching his throw:
1) His rear elbow gets away from his hip and strides almost in a squat position while I have to try to stride with a more straight leg. Is it because you're trying to help me find my own form that's gonna help me to throw further?
Did you also realize that X person is doing this but it doesn't mean it will work for me which means you want me to try out things you suggest to see if it worked out?
The rear elbow moves dynamically with his posture and stride length and it's superficially looking different due to his more extreme knee bend posture. I suspect SW22 is trying to get you to do the ideal fundamental posture and basic moves before worrying about variations.

2) If he didn't catch himself with plant leg, he would wall on the ground butt first yeah? I realized that almost his entire butt is facing the target during his reach back.
Yep, Hogan Power Move, Seabas22 Buttwipe. Hard to do properly without good spine position.

3) Should I try to imitate some of his movements that may result in more distance for me?
Maybe, but if it doesn't address your posture and especially spine position by doing, it may not help.

4) I've been taught to have a disc on the same line as the rear leg since the beginning of the run-up but he is holding the disc on his navel spot or even more below, not sure, thus his elbow is leading the run-up at the beginning. Is this because it helps you avoid fully extended hand too early where the plant leg isn't planted yet?
A bit uncertain which line you mean. I think he's setting up his arm/elbow/posture to swing through his CoG.

5) I've been taught to put my disc against my off-arm and when it's time to rotate my body to get ready to throw, my off-arm should be in front of me fully extended kinda, right next to my disc almost while my hand with the disc is fully extended. That's what the Overthrow Disc Golf channel taught me when I watched the backhand setup video.
"Clarify fully extended"? Could mean like David Feldberg's backswing at one extreme. The size of the off-arm backswing extension should be opposing & counterbalancing the throwing arm action. The elbow position relative to the hip while maintaining a protracted rear shoulder is the most important to sort out first, I think.


It's too much text here. I don't have any other questions I want to ask. I would just like to understand and know more about what to do to gain distance. I've hit a plateau and can't go further than 415 ft. I'm probably using my upper body more than the lower body and that's the limit one can do with the upper body mainly and not using lower body entirely I think.
I think you're getting the idea that like many of us, your posture/fundamental action need some work as described here and in the previous posts. I think you'll be fighting it and frustrated until you address it one way or another :-)

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