#11  
Old 06-30-2022, 11:48 AM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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Originally Posted by Flatpad View Post
Lot's of comments here. Thanks.

I'll answer to the lasts post first.

1. It is not dangerous, actually just opposite. It's safe due on engineering there's been taken into account standards regarding for building safe sporting site and equipment's. Height is not a problem at all. Higher teepads are quite common in disc golf. Important aspect is that you have clear visual perception of the teepad, so you can see it and set your steps accordingly.

. . .
You addressed all the other concerns and comments very well, but this one doesn't sit well with me.

The issue is whether anyone will step or slip off the tee pad, the issue is what happens when someone steps or slips off the tee pad. Whether or not you have a clear visual perception of the tee pad, you don't have a clear visual perception of it during the throw. If you've made a miscalculation, you will unexpectedly step off a tee pad that is high enough to cause injury.

I've seen people fall and one suffer a minor injury (ankle sprain) due to a 4" drop. I've fallen due to a 4-6" drop (though I haven't been injured thankfully). It's an obvious feature of your design that will be more likely the smaller the installer makes the tee pad.

It's an interesting product with one very important benefit - ease of installation. I recently designed a course that required the building of a heavier duty than necessary bridge to be able to put in concrete tee pads. Tee pads like these could have saved money due to the additional cost of the bridge that was put in over a simple footbridge that could have been build but for the equipment necessary to place the concrete tee pads. Of course, we could have built other types of tee pads, but the course owner wanted some consistency and was willing to pay for the additional bridge expense.

If I had used your pads, I would have built up the ground around them or set them in a hole to get rid of that step down issue.
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:21 PM
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I do not like raised tee pads at all.
On longer throws my momentum will often carry me beyond the pad. If a pad is raised I throw differently (little or no run up) to avoid going over much like a long approach shot with treacherous footing.

Also, I can't see a tee pad being 4 times the price of a quality basket.
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2022, 12:26 PM
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Countchunkula Countchunkula is offline
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I agree with Doof on the safety issue. I think that's a significant risk.

Where I could see these being used is for a (deep pocketed) tournament series that uses temp courses. Get a set of 18+ (allowing for some FPO only tees) for the DGPT along with a set of portable baskets and you can have a tourney virtually anywhere with enough open space. Probably use the largest size and put a foul line a foot or so from the front to limit people slipping off at the end of their drives. Would still give guys like Conrad with huge runups fits though.

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Old 06-30-2022, 01:27 PM
Flatpad Flatpad is offline
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Thanks guys for all the comments. Great to get good open conversation and also healthy criticism.

Seems like there's now two main points that are being critisized.

1. Safety.
This raised teepad seems to divide also elsewhere. Some hate those and others don't. I understand the possibility to step on edge. It can happen. But then there's also the other sides that this design fixes. For example water and friction in general. Ground based teepads can be sometimes slippery. They can be uneven on friction, thus difficult to predict.
Just by making the teepad big enough lowers the chance to step on edge. The biggest teepad that we make have even extra over stepping area, so if you follow your throw you still have space to stay on. Of course it is possible to dig the teepad into the ground, but then some of the other benefits are lost.



2. Price
As I said before we can always debate about the price. Market will tell in the end if products sell or not. If we could put aside the price completely and just see the products, if they are good or not. Then it would make more sense. To improve things someone need's to invest and do the experiment. It costs in the beginning a lot and in order to do healthy business you need to set the price accordingly. Disc golf in general is still small sport and there's lot things to evolve and it will. Also the money invested in to disc golf will definitely increase. So our price might seem high now for disc golf, or we might be too early with this products. Main thing still in my opinion is that the product it self is good and worth to get.

Just based on the feedback we have gotten, we know that these products are attractive for many. There's also new possibilities to find funding for the teepads, by placing ads on them. Clubs and others who might be interested could take advantage over this too.
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Old 06-30-2022, 02:31 PM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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Curious looking at these what deters someone from stealing them if they are placed out on a course? At such a high price point, and easy to assemble (and presumably disassemble since they are so mobile), is there anything to stop someone from just disassembling and stealing it when left outside?

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Old 06-30-2022, 03:41 PM
BillFleming BillFleming is offline
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Yes, there are some raised tee pads in tournaments. You should watch tournament videos, there are lots of complaints about raised tee pads. Watch James Conrad's run up.....he is one player who has tripped on raised tee pads - there's others. There's a video of someone falling off the end of a raised tee pad in a tournament...it was a while ago and I don't recall the year or course.

Cost. Way too expensive. There's lots of course builders/maintainers that have trouble just affording concrete tee pads, much less something this expensive.

For those two reasons, I don't see this as a feasible idea that will work out. But good luck - I hope you prove me wrong.

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Old 07-01-2022, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dmoore1998 View Post
Curious looking at these what deters someone from stealing them if they are placed out on a course? At such a high price point, and easy to assemble (and presumably disassemble since they are so mobile), is there anything to stop someone from just disassembling and stealing it when left outside?
Seriously this is a thing? Out of all valuable stuff out there, somebody would steal our teepad? I can understand bicycles or car wheels, which can be sold for cash.

Anyways, to steal Flatpad. One needs to know exactly what to do. Yes, check the videos and you see how it is assembled. Maybe you need to steal right tools first to disassemble. Then you might want to have friend helping you to carry modules. They can be carried alone, but you need to be strong enough. Also remember to get something for transportation. So yes, can be stolen if one is determined to do so. You just need to have lot of will power to carry it out.
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Old 07-01-2022, 02:20 AM
Flatpad Flatpad is offline
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Originally Posted by BillFleming View Post
Yes, there are some raised tee pads in tournaments. You should watch tournament videos, there are lots of complaints about raised tee pads. Watch James Conrad's run up.....he is one player who has tripped on raised tee pads - there's others. There's a video of someone falling off the end of a raised tee pad in a tournament...it was a while ago and I don't recall the year or course.

Cost. Way too expensive. There's lots of course builders/maintainers that have trouble just affording concrete tee pads, much less something this expensive.

For those two reasons, I don't see this as a feasible idea that will work out. But good luck - I hope you prove me wrong.
Okay, I see the point you are making. Raised teepads might be a problem for some. Majority of people are not like James Conrad. And majority of fairways doesn't need so much speed on opening throw. So my point is, that we are offering a solution which solves many challenges and fits in to many courses. Not for all, but many or even most.

Same goes for concrete teepads too. They can't be used in every scenario. Let's take one example. Up north where frosting is a seasonal fact. Concrete teepad would be very labor and cost expensive in order to make durable enough. Otherwise it will crack over the winter.

Costs are again one thing which should be considered also including scaling factor. To scale you need to be able to deliver the products without adding costs per unit when making more. Flatpad is actually getting cheaper when scaling up, due manufacturing process. Concrete ones will do opposite. Those are machine and labor intensive, thus expensive to scale. Not to mention shipping costs at all.

Cost should also be considered how much they are per rounds played. As an example let's take one course nearby my location. Meri-Toppila Oulu Finland. https://udisc.com/courses/meri-toppila-3E4R
2021 Udisc has 14071 recorded rounds played. Udiscs estimates that only every fifth is recorded on their app. So actual played rounds would be 14071 * 5 = 70355. This course needs and update on teepads, so let's do them on using Flatpad Flat 4.2. The lifetime of Flatpad is more than 10 years, but let's use something lower like 5 years. After that period they would be renewed. To get all 18 hole done by Flatpad, the direct cost would be 18 * 1999 / 2092$ = 35982 / 37656$. Within 5-years there would be 70355 * 5 = 351775 rounds played. Direct costs divided by rounds played and direct costs per round would be 0,1 / 0,1$. For me it doesn't sound expensive at all. On many courses there's actually round fee that you need to pay. By doing the math in this way you might see how it starts to make sense.

I'm not here to say that our products are one fits to all solution. I'm trying to explain how teepads can be done in a new way and how it's benefits the sport and people in and around it. I know that Flapad fits and works in various places. In many cases it's easily the best solution to choose.

Prices on our website includes VAT 24%. So for business buyers and for example US customers it would be deducted. Also we have priced in the re-seller's share. We would be happy to get a distributor and re-seller's in north America.
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Old 07-01-2022, 06:36 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
Interesting. I don't know if these are only meant to be temporary, but I know that with astroturf tees they can stay wet, hold mud and become slick. I don't know how you are backing the turf so it doesn't slip, but I would consider some way for the metal surface to drain water and help air out the turf.
This is a real concern, but can be mitigated somewhat by making sure the pad has a slight slope -- not enough to throw off players, but enough for water to drain.

We built a deck in the woods and put turf on it. Unfortunately, the volunteer who did it was a competent carpenter, and made it perfectly level, which wouldn't have happened if I'd been on the crew. Anyway, the turf holds water and gets slick, and being in the woods, is slow to dry.

When we later built some solid-surface tees with turf over them, we included a slight grade, and they don't retain water nearly as bad.

As for height, yes, drops on the front of the tee should be avoided. Local courses have added extensions in front of concrete tees with 4" drops. Our 2 raised tees include 4' of raised surface in front of the turf; anyone with the deep pockets to buy flatpads, should be able to afford one longer than the tee, to have a safe run-off.

That said, count me a skeptic; it's a too-expensive solution with too many issues.

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  #20  
Old 07-01-2022, 08:38 AM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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Originally Posted by Flatpad View Post
Seriously this is a thing? Out of all valuable stuff out there, somebody would steal our teepad? I can understand bicycles or car wheels, which can be sold for cash.

Anyways, to steal Flatpad. One needs to know exactly what to do. Yes, check the videos and you see how it is assembled. Maybe you need to steal right tools first to disassemble. Then you might want to have friend helping you to carry modules. They can be carried alone, but you need to be strong enough. Also remember to get something for transportation. So yes, can be stolen if one is determined to do so. You just need to have lot of will power to carry it out.
So you just need tools, a friend, and a vehicle? Are they special assembly tools? That doesn't seem like a big deal if someone is going to steal something worth as much money as these are. I'm assuming the smaller ones can be stolen without any real disassembly.

And yes, I'm sure it would be a thing. People already open unlocked cars at disc golf courses to steal people's discs. They already will snatch baskets if they aren't secured. Any time you have a high value item that is specifically designed to be portable, the security of it is going to be a concern if you leave it out permanently in a public space.

What's the weight of the fully-assembled largest size?

I wouldn't be worried about someone stealing it if I put it on the course on my private property, but I might be concerned if I was a city putting them into my public course or something.

Just something to consider. I do see these as more likely a "set up today, take down today (or take down in a few days after a tournament)" type item, but if going for the "permanent tee pad" much larger market...the security of the product might be an issue to resolve.

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