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  #11  
Old 07-05-2022, 04:16 PM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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What I've found when discing down to just fairways is that on straight shots, my distance isn't impacted ALL that much...but it tends to take a lot more focus/skill to get the same distance (i.e. I can't just throw a 13 speed flat and get a good s-curve, now I have to pick the right hyzer angle to hyzer-flip the disc to get the same distance).

Ditto for throwing things like big spike annhyzer flex shots that I know will flatten out...with a fairway those same shots just turn into rollers.

My bigger distance issues tend to be on things like spike hyzers though...I just can't get the same distance on a big spike hyzer from a Thunderbird as I can from a Nuke.

Generally speaking though, I'd rather throw a distance driver at 90% power because I can throw that pretty accurately than throwing a fairway at 100% power. I'm more accurate with the distance driver in that scenario.

On the whole though, the biggest difference is probably just how used to throwing distance drivers I am. I'm already automatically accounting for the ground play in the shot. I'm already throwing them in all kinds of wind. I'm just more used to them (which is less a commentary on distance vs fairway and more about just getting used to specific discs for specific shots). It probably also has to do with the way my bag is setup...my fairways are meant more for shot-shaping that length of shot than they are for throwing them as far as I possibly can. It's mostly just OS stuff that I can switch between BH & FH (which breaks down a bit because I don't really throw FH for distance).
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2022, 05:06 PM
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Sheep Sheep is offline
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Originally Posted by dmoore1998 View Post
Generally speaking though, I'd rather throw a distance driver at 90% power because I can throw that pretty accurately than throwing a fairway at 100% power. I'm more accurate with the distance driver in that scenario.
This is where part of the argument I was making was.

Looking at designed distance of discs vs "power" and "skill"

You can say you're throwing your big dog discs at 90% and getting distance, but are you getting the distance they are designed for?
No.

But, it also comes down to. Does it work for you?

And it comes down to your personal goals in disc golf. Are you happy throwing that distance driver when I'm throwing a midrange the same distance?
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Old 07-06-2022, 08:50 AM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
This is where part of the argument I was making was.

Looking at designed distance of discs vs "power" and "skill"

You can say you're throwing your big dog discs at 90% and getting distance, but are you getting the distance they are designed for?
No.

But, it also comes down to. Does it work for you?

And it comes down to your personal goals in disc golf. Are you happy throwing that distance driver when I'm throwing a midrange the same distance?
What distance would you say a 13 speed is designed for? I'm probably not getting "max" distance out of them...but throwing them over 400. I've heard lots of theories on "the distance they were designed for"...I usually worry more about whether I'm getting the intended flight path out of them (which is also tricky, because there are plenty of high-speed discs that I've found to be stupidly under/over stable based on their flight numbers compared to other similarly-numbered discs)
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Old 07-06-2022, 09:41 AM
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Sheep Sheep is offline
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Originally Posted by dmoore1998 View Post
What distance would you say a 13 speed is designed for? I'm probably not getting "max" distance out of them...but throwing them over 400. I've heard lots of theories on "the distance they were designed for"...I usually worry more about whether I'm getting the intended flight path out of them (which is also tricky, because there are plenty of high-speed discs that I've found to be stupidly under/over stable based on their flight numbers compared to other similarly-numbered discs)
I forgot what the old formula was for matching disc speed to skill level.

But you took your average distance, and divided that by a number and it gave you a baseline for your speed number to work around in your bag.

Somebody will have to help me out on the formula now.


High speed discs are designed to have high release speed.
throwing discs far higher than you can really push will not allow the disc to really perform as designed as well. So throwing to high speed of discs can actually hurt your form as you try and get performance out of the disc.

A high speed disc regardless of stability will dump far harder at apex if you dont have the power to push that disc out further for the stall. And then on top, with them being touchier with nose angles, that big wing is going to give you a bad result at the end of it.

That's the coaching side of things.

The reality is, there are tons of people out there throwing discs that are beyond their actual skill level, but make them work successfully. So who am I to really tell them they are doing something terribly wrong?

Tons and tons of golfers out there successfully golf with terrible form and terrible disc choice for their skill level, but the score good. It drives me absolutely nuts, but I had this issue when I was first starting. My scores were way better than they are now, but now I'm not continually blowing out my bad shoulder because I'm using my body and leverage to get there vs trying to muscle discs I shouldn't be throwing.

it's kind of a catch 22, and really depends on what you want to do with your game and wanting to get better.
A higher speed disc doesn't necessarily give you more distance. We know that speed is equated to the speed at which a disc is designed to fly at.
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Old 07-06-2022, 10:16 AM
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drk_evns drk_evns is offline
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I think the benefit to limiting your bag is more about learning your discs than it is about helping your technique.

You will learn a lot from a putter only round, but you'll also learn a lot by playing with just a destroyer. I will do this with new discs. You throw it in situations you wouldn't usually and learn a lot about the flight. More than you ever would if you just use it for what you assume it does.

Some people think throwing only slower discs will make their form magically improve. I don't think that's true. I'm an advocate for all skill levels throwing everything. If you want to improve your form, it's got to be intentional. Best way to do that is film + field work.

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Old 07-06-2022, 10:42 AM
Lastchancer88 Lastchancer88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
I forgot what the old formula was for matching disc speed to skill level.

But you took your average distance, and divided that by a number and it gave you a baseline for your speed number to work around in your bag.

Somebody will have to help me out on the formula now.


High speed discs are designed to have high release speed.
throwing discs far higher than you can really push will not allow the disc to really perform as designed as well. So throwing to high speed of discs can actually hurt your form as you try and get performance out of the disc.

A high speed disc regardless of stability will dump far harder at apex if you dont have the power to push that disc out further for the stall. And then on top, with them being touchier with nose angles, that big wing is going to give you a bad result at the end of it.

That's the coaching side of things.

The reality is, there are tons of people out there throwing discs that are beyond their actual skill level, but make them work successfully. So who am I to really tell them they are doing something terribly wrong?

Tons and tons of golfers out there successfully golf with terrible form and terrible disc choice for their skill level, but the score good. It drives me absolutely nuts, but I had this issue when I was first starting. My scores were way better than they are now, but now I'm not continually blowing out my bad shoulder because I'm using my body and leverage to get there vs trying to muscle discs I shouldn't be throwing.

it's kind of a catch 22, and really depends on what you want to do with your game and wanting to get better.
A higher speed disc doesn't necessarily give you more distance. We know that speed is equated to the speed at which a disc is designed to fly at.
I believe it's your throwing distance/35 = top speed of disc you "should" be throwing.

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Old 07-06-2022, 02:32 PM
auzcar auzcar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drk_evns View Post
Some people think throwing only slower discs will make their form magically improve. I don't think that's true. I'm an advocate for all skill levels throwing everything. If you want to improve your form, it's got to be intentional. Best way to do that is film + field work.
100% agree, the same goes for different stabilities. A lot of people think that beginners shouldn't be throwing overstable discs and I think that's bad advice. IMO it's an essential skill to throw overstable discs since those are the most predictable and accurate discs out there. Learning the differences in how an overstable, stable and understable disc reacts is really something you need to learn if you want to progress and I think those types of discs should be there right from the start.

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  #18  
Old 07-06-2022, 04:09 PM
Skervoy Skervoy is offline
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For me a disc is a tool. Everybody needs tools to play but yeah sure a beginner wont need 6 destroyers in different states of wear. One however can be very useful to escape some tricky spots with some flex lines and as your arm speed increases you can start using more for driving etc.
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  #19  
Old 07-07-2022, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drk_evns View Post
I think the benefit to limiting your bag is more about learning your discs than it is about helping your technique.

You will learn a lot from a putter only round, but you'll also learn a lot by playing with just a destroyer. I will do this with new discs. You throw it in situations you wouldn't usually and learn a lot about the flight. More than you ever would if you just use it for what you assume it does.

Some people think throwing only slower discs will make their form magically improve. I don't think that's true. I'm an advocate for all skill levels throwing everything. If you want to improve your form, it's got to be intentional. Best way to do that is film + field work.
Limiting your bag does a few things, and one of them is learning discs for sure. The other one is helping you learn to push some shot shapes out of discs you'd normally not try which improves your control and skill level overall.

And putter only rounds is amazing. People dont put enough stake into their putter game and while they make the other discs work for what they are doing, they dont have the control the putter will give them, and no confidence in the putter at all. Putter confidence improves your game SO much as you can do insane shot shapes with a putter that other discs are simply not capable of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drk_evns View Post
If you want to improve your form, it's got to be intentional.
This is everything. You have to want to improve, and that's the key factor with disc choices in general. You either keep playing the game you're playing, or you choose to want to improve and challenge yourself. But it's a choice, you cannot really do both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastchancer88 View Post
I believe it's your throwing distance/35 = top speed of disc you "should" be throwing.
That sounds about right.
That puts 400 feet on a 11 speed, and with the technology out there though I personally say 400 feet with a 9 speed. I know 9 speeds are capable of 450+ with good form and control and the right disc choices.
That's me though.
But not all 9 speeds are equal for distance, and the same with 11's.

Figuring out where your sweet spot is and bracketing one disc up and down can make the bag you're playing with so much better for your game vs trying to control huge discs that require more power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by auzcar View Post
100% agree, the same goes for different stabilities. A lot of people think that beginners shouldn't be throwing overstable discs and I think that's bad advice. IMO it's an essential skill to throw overstable discs since those are the most predictable and accurate discs out there. Learning the differences in how an overstable, stable and understable disc reacts is really something you need to learn if you want to progress and I think those types of discs should be there right from the start.
The reason you should avoid giving newer players overstable discs is it encourages bad form and bad habbits.
So you keep throwing bad form force flexes which don't translate into other discs.
So you also then in turn get into these conversations with people on pages where they are telling you they are turning over X disc but only throw 300-350 feet which is absolute hooey, which its because they throw a force flex with every throw and when they get a straight driver and try and throw it with that super overstable destroyer throw, it doesnt' have the time and distance to come out of the flight.

I think that only giving them neutral or flippy discs is a mistake also though, they should have a good centered bag that lets them explore the angles with out forcing bad form to get flight from the disc.

Picking out new discs as a beginner is insanely intimidating.
Helping new players in the store improve their game with discs is one of the hardest things to do. If I've seen you play, then its quite easy as I can suggest a disc that will do what you want, or help you improve your form As there are discs out there that you can match to people that will punish their bad form when you're trying to teach them things like "stop throwing so hard" and to smooth it out and let the disc do the work, so when they back off just a smidge, that disc go far, but if they try and crank on it, it gonna burn on them.

That also goes into a mental game discussion on throwing with others and wanting to keep up vs playing "your game" as well.
teaching people to not try and keep up and find a disc that just works can change their outlook on playing and increase their enjoyment as they just throw straight down the fairway every time vs in the woods left and right as they try and push these big overstable or understable discs around muscling it.

Sorry, that's a bit of a stupid long reply, but ... 100wpm typing gets away from me sometimes.

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  #20  
Old 07-07-2022, 10:16 AM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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Bit of a thread drift...I'll try to steer it back to the OP before I finish.

Lots of good points here. As I am still in the learning stage, my game is evolving. I've recently been working with putters more for 100-200'. An RPro Pig that's OS and an Envy that seems like a nice do it all distance putter.

But, I find that a fairway driver or regular driver as useful at times for shorter throws. Skips or even up shots at the basket. Throwing a Valk from 60 to 100' (C3?) out, I can back it way down and let the glide carry it where as a putter takes more energy to get it to cover that same distance.

Back to high speed drivers--I don't have the arm for any of them, but still throw a few. May pull them, but to say that an extra 20-50' doesn't serve a purpose is incorrect IMO. There are several holes I can think of where 20-50' can turn an upshot in to a putt and because the fairway is pretty open, the down side of an inaccurate throw is pretty low.
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